Idaho Will Sue
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses_S._Grant"He is a butcher and is not fit to be at the head of an army. Yes, he generally manages to claim a victory, but such a victory! He loses two men to the enemy's one. He has no management, no regard for life."
The victory at Shiloh came at a heavy price; 13,047 for the Union army and 10,699 for Confederate army.
Chattanooga
Casualties after the battle were 5,824 for the Union and 6,667 for Confederate armies, respectively
The Wilderness
Casualties for the battle were 17,666 for the Union and 11,125 for the Confederate armies, respectively
Spotsylvania
There were 12,000 Confederate casualties to the Union's 18,000
Cold Harbor
12,737 for Union and 4,595 for the Confederate troops, respectively.
Petersburg
In early September, the efforts of the Grant's coordinated strategy finally bore fruit.
Last edited by MSimon on Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
I've seen that argument made a dozen coherent ways, and an ardent leftist will never have a clue what you're talking about. The higher principle that we hold valuing liberty is meaningless to them. That you object to theft or forced service to a good cause will always be taken as proof that you are a heartless bastard and don't care about the cause.Diogenes wrote: To me, the wonderfullness of the work is not the issue here, it is whether or not someone should be compelled to work on someone elses behalf.
It is simply another iteration of the slavery issue.
Fine. So if they will not get treated by force what is the point? You pick a class of people by income and give them enough medical credits so that they get the treatment the government desires.Skipjack wrote:Noone is forcing them to treat anybody. I dont get your way of thinking...Those of us who feel that something needs to be done should do something, but what we should NOT do is make OTHER people do something.
Of course the trouble comes when the government decides that bribing road builders or defense contractors is more important than bribing doctors.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
Ok, I still dont get your twisted way of thinking, sorry.
The doctors treat patients. The doctors get paid for this act by the health insurance. There are private and public health insurance solutions. Both have to pay the doctor. Even then, the doctor does not have a treat a patient if he does not want to. That is his choice no matter what.
Both the private and the public option for health insurance are paid for by the people that are the potential beneficiaries. So again, why is there a problem?
The doctors treat patients. The doctors get paid for this act by the health insurance. There are private and public health insurance solutions. Both have to pay the doctor. Even then, the doctor does not have a treat a patient if he does not want to. That is his choice no matter what.
Both the private and the public option for health insurance are paid for by the people that are the potential beneficiaries. So again, why is there a problem?
Government money distorts the market.Skipjack wrote:Ok, I still dont get your twisted way of thinking, sorry.
The doctors treat patients. The doctors get paid for this act by the health insurance. There are private and public health insurance solutions. Both have to pay the doctor. Even then, the doctor does not have a treat a patient if he does not want to. That is his choice no matter what.
Both the private and the public option for health insurance are paid for by the people that are the potential beneficiaries. So again, why is there a problem?
If the government pays below market the people served by the government get less treatment and drive prices up for those who pay. Massachusetts with a system similar to the new Federal system has some of the fastest rising insurance rates in America and the underserved are only marginally better served.
If the government were to pay above market - well that bids up prices too.
Any time you add people to a market prices go up if supply is not increased.
And the worst part of government money? It is extracted at gun point. Which explains American thinking on the subject: Taxation is robbery.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
Better outcomes. Tall Dave has run it down and has lots of links. I'll leave it to him.Skipjack wrote:Hmm, accordig to your logic, we would have to pay more for healthcare than you do. We pay about half and noone is denied treatment by any medical doctor hiere. Explain!If the government pays below market the people served by the government get less treatment and drive prices up for those who pay.
There are other things we need:
1. Tort Reform
2. Interstate Insurance sales
3. Medical Savings Accounts so individuals can shop around
4. Catastrophic Insurance only.
Already MRIs at clinics cost 1/4 of what hospitals charge. If we can encourage more of that kind of medicine our costs will soon be below yours.
The paperwork from 3rd Party Payers is killing us.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
I'm sure you posted comparative statistics. Could you provide a link to your post?Skipjack wrote:You dont have better outcomes. Better than England and Canada, maybe even Germany and France, but not better than us.Better outcomes.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
I dont have anything online. I do have my fathers word though (who has the statistics and has to deal with this all the time).I'm sure you posted comparative statistics. Could you provide a link to your post?
He is a medical doctor and politically very active (not a socialist). He is against pretty much anything social, but our health care system is top notch and it costs abot half of what yours costs. It is more expensive thant the ones in France and Germany though.
Government controls 1/3 to 1/2 our system directly.
And about 1/3 to 1/2 of what the government spends is waste.
They admit that 30% of what government spends on is fraud.
That says that between 10% and 25% of our system is just burning money.
===
A plague of lawyers drives up costs due to excessive testing.
Called defensive medicine in the USA.
====
From 2003:
And about 1/3 to 1/2 of what the government spends is waste.
They admit that 30% of what government spends on is fraud.
That says that between 10% and 25% of our system is just burning money.
===
A plague of lawyers drives up costs due to excessive testing.
Called defensive medicine in the USA.
====
From 2003:
http://www.seattlepi.com/national/141141_medi25.html
When it comes to the chance of surviving cancer in Europe, France and Austria are the best places to be, according to new research that tracks cancer survival patterns across the region.
The analysis, to be presented today at the close of a European Cancer Conference, involved statistics on 42 types of cancer in 1.8 million adults and 24,000 children from 22 countries in Europe.
The largest international cancer survival study to date, it found the chances of surviving for at least five years after being diagnosed with cancer ranged from a low of 25.2 percent for men in Poland to 57.9 percent for women in France. Regionally, Scandinavia came out best and Eastern Europe worst.
That compares with a survival rate of 62 percent for men and 63.5 percent for women in the United States. Comparable statistics for other areas of the world were not immediately available.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
From the same article:
On the other hand, there are a few things that will affect the statistics quite a bit and might make them less representative over all.
First, dont forget that we are spending less than 10% of our GDP for healthcare. Considering this, even these naked results are pretty good.
Until very recently, we have had a lot of smokers. We still, after a big campaign by the Austrian government, have more smokers than the US has (in %). Though luckily, the number of smokers has gone down A LOT in recent years.
Since, to the best of my knowledge, lung cancer still has a very low chance of survival compared to other types of cancers (e.g. colon cancer, which is more common in the US), a higher percentage of lung cancer cases will result in a lower cancer survival rate overall.
We have had a big campaign for early cancer detection and cancer prevention in recent years. This might have also affected things positively since this article was written. Since this article is now almost 7 years old, it may very well be that cancer survival has improved compared to the US.
I would say that if you take all that into consideration, Austria is doing pretty well. Dont you think so?
It is true though, the US is pretty good at emergency treatments.Coleman, a professor of epidemiology and vital statistics at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, said the EUROCARE findings cannot be interpreted as an assessment of health care systems across Europe because other factors, including how soon patients go to their doctors in the first place, determine the likelihood of survival.
On the other hand, there are a few things that will affect the statistics quite a bit and might make them less representative over all.
First, dont forget that we are spending less than 10% of our GDP for healthcare. Considering this, even these naked results are pretty good.
Until very recently, we have had a lot of smokers. We still, after a big campaign by the Austrian government, have more smokers than the US has (in %). Though luckily, the number of smokers has gone down A LOT in recent years.
Since, to the best of my knowledge, lung cancer still has a very low chance of survival compared to other types of cancers (e.g. colon cancer, which is more common in the US), a higher percentage of lung cancer cases will result in a lower cancer survival rate overall.
We have had a big campaign for early cancer detection and cancer prevention in recent years. This might have also affected things positively since this article was written. Since this article is now almost 7 years old, it may very well be that cancer survival has improved compared to the US.
I would say that if you take all that into consideration, Austria is doing pretty well. Dont you think so?
IMHO that would just mean that your system needs improvement. It would not mean that a public healthcare system is inferior to a completely private system.Government controls 1/3 to 1/2 our system directly.
And about 1/3 to 1/2 of what the government spends is waste.
They admit that 30% of what government spends on is fraud.
Oh, you may not be aware of it, but most Germans are now insured with private health care providers. Ever since they introduced this, healthcare standards in Germany have gone down. That to the point, that my sister, a medical doctor currently living and working in Germany, wants to return to Austria to have her baby. The medical standards here are just so much better.