At this point kicking me off looks like a cowardly move.

[Schneibster]

Ted Turner

Thought he was a burfer.

[williatw]

There's probaly a dozen cases like the Zimmerman Martin case that happen every month, so the question is, why does this one swallow up so much media attention. While all were fixated, a UN report came out on a previous chemical weapons attack in Syria, clearly blaming the 'rebels'. It's amazing how the mainstream media will fixate on irrelevant individual cases for months as if the rest of the world didn't exist. Weapons of mass distraction, disruption, dissention, disinformation.

According to the the works of John Lott and Gary Kleck, people defend themselves with firearms several hundred thousand to perhaps 2.5 million times a year. In the overwhelming majority of instances, merely the display of the weapon causes the would be assailant to bid a hasty retreat, no shots fired. The NRA's website tabulates these under its armed citizen tab:

http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen.aspx

They sometimes will get covered by local media, popping up briefly and just as quickly disappearing, but the national media consistently ignores them.

[Schneibster]

There's probaly a dozen cases like the Zimmerman Martin case that happen every month, so the question is, why does this one swallow up so much media attention. While all were fixated, a UN report came out on a previous chemical weapons attack in Syria, clearly blaming the 'rebels'. It's amazing how the mainstream media will fixate on irrelevant individual cases for months as if the rest of the world didn't exist. Weapons of mass distraction, disruption, dissention, disinformation.

According the the works of John Lott and Gary Keck, people defend themselves with firearms several hundred thousand to perhaps 2.5 million times a year. In the overwhelming majority of instances, merely the display of the weapon causes the would be assailant to bid a hasty retreat, no shots fired. The NRA's website tabulates these under its armed citizen tab:

http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen.aspx

They sometimes will get covered by local media, popping up briefly and just as quickly disappearing, but the national media consistently ignores them.

But Trayvon was carrying his tea in a threatening manner. /sarcasm

As far as choff's claim of dozens of cases, it's still BS. And that's because of your own words: "merely the display of the weapon causes the would be assailant to bid a hasty retreat, no shots fired." That's not what happened to Trayvon. That's not "like" it at all.

You're lying again.

You guys just can't stop yourselves, can you?

[choff]

Notice I said probably, are you implying there aren't other equally controversial cases where white people pull guns on black people in the US, or am I missing something here.

[Schneibster]

Notice I said probably, are you implying there aren't other equally controversial cases where white people pull guns on black people in the US, or am I missing something here.

Ummm, when they shoot them it generally does. And if they get off on a technicality,
that appears to have been designed in to a law written by two of the ten richest people in the US,
and passed in a bunch of states using their money in an organization called "ALEC,"
all over the South,
and the victim is black,
then it makes national news.

Which means there aren't "dozens." In fact there aren't any at all, besides Trayvon.

So far.

The law appears designed to let people get away with shooting young black men. Not surprisingly it's passing all over the Old Nasty South.

Oh and while we're on the subject of ALEC, they're the rape wand folks, just so ya know.

[choff]

While it may be the first case of a black man being shot by a white man under the SYG laws, I doubt it's the first case of a black man being shot by a white man in a similar situation, bereft of national media coverage. Bottom line, though, this hardly constitutes lying.

[Schneibster]

While it may be the first case of a black man being shot by a white man under the SYG laws, I doubt it's the first case of a black man being shot by a white man in a similar situation, bereft of national media coverage. Bottom line, though, this hardly constitutes lying.

You always have an excuse.

[Schneibster]

And of course you lock the Climate thread.

Transparent as glass.

If you were honest you'd lock this one and edit the attack posts on mine.

[choff]

Not me, was going to post this under Climate, might give you some idea why some of us at T-P are skeptics on AGW.


“The common enemy of humanity is man.
In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up
with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming,
water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these
dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through
changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome.
The real enemy then, is humanity itself.”
- Club of Rome,
premier environmental think-tank,
consultants to the United Nations

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“We need to get some broad based support,
to capture the public’s imagination…
So we have to offer up scary scenarios,
make simplified, dramatic statements
and make little mention of any doubts…
Each of us has to decide what the right balance
is between being effective and being honest.”
- Prof. Stephen Schneider,
Stanford Professor of Climatology,
lead author of many IPCC reports

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“We’ve got to ride this global warming issue.
Even if the theory of global warming is wrong,
we will be doing the right thing in terms of
economic and environmental policy.”
- Timothy Wirth,
President of the UN Foundation

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“No matter if the science of global warming is all phony…
climate change provides the greatest opportunity to
bring about justice and equality in the world.”
- Christine Stewart,
former Canadian Minister of the Environment

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“The data doesn’t matter. We’re not basing our recommendations
on the data. We’re basing them on the climate models.”
- Prof. Chris Folland,
Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“The models are convenient fictions
that provide something very useful.”
- Dr David Frame,
climate modeler, Oxford University

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“I believe it is appropriate to have an ‘over-representation’ of the facts
on how dangerous it is, as a predicate for opening up the audience.”
- Al Gore,
Climate Change activist

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“It doesn’t matter what is true,
it only matters what people believe is true.”
- Paul Watson,
co-founder of Greenpeace

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“Unless we announce disasters no one will listen.”
- Sir John Houghton,
first chairman of IPCC

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“The only way to get our society to truly change is to
frighten people with the possibility of a catastrophe.”
- emeritus professor Daniel Botkin

“We are on the verge of a global transformation.
All we need is the right major crisis…”
- David Rockefeller,
Club of Rome executive member

“Democracy is not a panacea. It cannot organize everything and
it is unaware of its own limits. These facts must be faced squarely.
Sacrilegious though this may sound, democracy is no longer well
suited for the tasks ahead. The complexity and the technical nature
of many of today’s problems do not always allow elected
representatives to make competent decisions at the right time.”
- Club of Rome,
The First Global Revolution

Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the
industrialized civilizations collapse?
Isn’t it our responsiblity to bring that about?”
- Maurice Strong,
founder of the UN Environment Programme

“Global Sustainability requires the deliberate quest of poverty,
reduced resource consumption and set levels of mortality control.”
- Professor Maurice King

“Complex technology of any sort is an assault on
human dignity. It would be little short of disastrous for us to
discover a source of clean, cheap, abundant energy,
because of what we might do with it.”
- Amory Lovins, Rocky Mountain Institute

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“The prospect of cheap fusion energy is the
worst thing that could happen to the planet.”
- Jeremy Rifkin,
Greenhouse Crisis Foundation

“Giving society cheap, abundant energy would be the
equivalent of giving an idiot child a machine gun.”
- Prof Paul Ehrlich, Stanford University

“My three main goals would be to reduce human population to
about 100 million worldwide, destroy the industrial infrastructure
and see wilderness, with it’s full complement of species,
returning throughout the world.”
-Dave Foreman,
co-founder of Earth First!

“Human beings, as a species,
have no more value than slugs.”
- John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“Humans on the Earth behave in some ways like a
pathogenic micro-organism, or like the cells of a tumor.”
- Sir James Lovelock,
Healing Gaia

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“The Earth has cancer
and the cancer is Man.”
- Club of Rome,
Mankind at the Turning Point

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“A cancer is an uncontrolled multiplication of cells;
the population explosion is an uncontrolled multiplication of people.
We must shift our efforts from the treatment of the symptoms to
the cutting out of the cancer. The operation will demand many
apparently brutal and heartless decisions.”
- Prof Paul Ehrlich,
The Population Bomb

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“I don’t claim to have any special interest in natural history,
but as a boy I was made aware of the annual fluctuations in
the number of game animals and the need to adjust
the cull to the size of the surplus population.”
- Prince Philip,
preface of Down to Earth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“A reasonable estimate for an industrialized world society
at the present North American material standard of living
would be 1 billion. At the more frugal European standard
of living, 2 to 3 billion would be possible.”
- United Nations,
Global Biodiversity Assessment

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“A total population of 250-300 million people,
a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal.”
- Ted Turner,
founder of CNN and major UN donor

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“… the resultant ideal sustainable population is hence
more than 500 million but less than one billion.”
- Club of Rome,
Goals for Mankind

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“One America burdens the earth much more than
twenty Bangladeshes. This is a terrible thing to say.
In order to stabilize world population,we must eliminate
350,000 people per day. It is a horrible thing to say,
but it’s just as bad not to say it.”
- Jacques Cousteau,
UNESCO Courier

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“If I were reincarnated I would wish to be returned to earth
as a killer virus to lower human population levels.”
- Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh,
patron of the World Wildlife Fund

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“I suspect that eradicating small pox was wrong.
It played an important part in balancing ecosystems.”
- John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“The extinction of the human species may not
only be inevitable but a good thing.”
- Christopher Manes, Earth First!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“The extinction of Homo Sapiens would mean survival
for millions, if not billions, of Earth-dwelling species.
Phasing out the human race will solve every
problem on Earth – social and environmental.”
- Ingrid Newkirk,
former President of PETA

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“Childbearing should be a punishable crime against
society, unless the parents hold a government license.
All potential parents should be required to use
contraceptive chemicals, the government issuing
antidotes to citizens chosen for childbearing.”
- David Brower,
first Executive Director of the Sierra Club

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Schneibster]

Not me, was going to post this under Climate, might give you some idea why some of us at T-P are skeptics on AGW.

None of those are relevant. There is only one class of things that're relevant: how does CO2 behave in the atmosphere? And is it increasing? And are we responsible?

And the answers to these appear to be, "each doubling increases the average temperature at the surface by about 3ºC," "yes," and "yes." And according to thousands of climate geophysicists worldwide, the confidence in all three of these answers is 95%, sufficient to convict a man of first degree murder beyond a reasonable doubt.

Politics is irrelevant.

[JoeStrout]

This thread also seems to have seriously outlasted its usefulness.

If anybody wants to discuss climate change, Southern law, gun control, drugs (both legal and non), or any other off-topic matter, and really can't find some other more appropriate board on which to discuss them, then please start a short, focused, single-topic thread for each such. Remember to stick to facts, ideally backed up with references, as much as you can.

If short on facts, it's also fine to express your opinions (about the facts, not about other members). Speech is free. However, ad hominem attacks are not cool. Don't go there.

Thanks,
- Joe