BLP news

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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tomclarke
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Post by tomclarke »

GIThruster wrote:choff, are we talking about the same Polywell project that was started by the man who asked for $200 million to make it work during a Google talk?

Betruger, I have to agree. The salient difference is of course that the Polywell is based upon modern nuclear physics, etc. and the BLP stuff is all based upon a theory that very few in the scientific community can or will support. It will be a paradigm changing theory if one day it is ever accepted.

This is why we've seen BLP take 25 years to prove itself and why the vast bulk of the scientific community is not in support, despite the gobs of physical evidence that has been accumulating over time.

I'm not saying I think Mills is right in his theory. I'm just agreeing that yes indeed, in this we are comparing apples with oranges.
Maybe the 25 years is becaus ethey have nothing.

Consider, if they had what they claim, water-tight experimental evidence could easily be checked by NASA etc, people would believe, or at least sit up take notice. And BLP funding would be easier.

So why have they not done this?

chrismb
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Post by chrismb »

chrismb wrote:
neutron starr wrote:What tests can be performed with ordinary off the shelf equipment that QM says should dis-prove BLP's claims but don't (if it's not falsifiable then it's an invisible garage dwelling dragon)?
I've mentioned it before, and it is very simple, and possibly fun! All you need; one balloon full of hydrino gas, one full of helium, and a match.

The hydrino balloon will have a higher lifting capacity than the helium, but if you put the match to it then it won't go up in a whoosh !

Hydrino gas would be chemically inert.
chrismb wrote:
GIThruster wrote:And honestly, I don't owe anyone the same tired explanations of how these sorts of objections fail miserably. They're just grade school errors anyone of intelligence ought to be able to see through. Not worth any more of my time.
When has it ever been explained to me why there is some 'miserable failure' of experimental objective with determining the presence of hydrino gas by trying to burn it?

The best tests of proof are the simplest.

Why complicate it by running NMR measurements and calorimetry at the limits of detectability when all you have to do is put a lighted splint in it?
chrismb wrote:
GIThruster wrote: IIRC, they have collected the hydrino compounds, but not the gas. The reaction process used in the experiment above is not a gas, but a plasma. Not something you can put in a balloon.
http://www.blacklightpower.com/applications.shtml wrote:Moreover, molecular hydrino gas and novel hydrogen compounds with potential commercial applications are the by-products.
GIThruster wrote:What don't we know? Do hydrinoes pass through stainless steel because they're so small?
http://www.blacklightpower.com/applications.shtml wrote:The opportunity may exist with BlackLight Technology to replace a FEL that occupies the size of a large building with a table-top laser comprising a laser tube containing dihydrino gas that is excited by a standard electron beam.
GIThruster wrote:Are they like normal hydrogen, diatomic? If they're not, they would not necessarily float, now would they?
http://www.blacklightpower.com/applications.shtml wrote:The [molecular hydrino gas] is very stable and self-vents from the atmosphere to space due to its high buoyancy and mobility.

Betruger
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Post by Betruger »

ScottL wrote:
GIThruster wrote:Scott you seem to have your facts backward. BLP did not claim they were going to develop their last piece of technology for commercial use. They sold non-exclusive licenses to others to do that.
I wanted to address this quote specifically. Their claim as documented here:
http://nextbigfuture.com/2008/05/balckl ... otype.html
Posted May 29, 2008 by NextBigFuture:
They expect to have pilot plants built and devices ready for delivery in 12-18 months. Below (hit 'read more') there is a chart which shows that Blacklight is targeting $250/KW which would be several times cheaper than existing power sources. They are also looking to scale up to megawatt power.
Sadly, BLP has removed all links to prior slides, talks, charts, etc. that dealt with this time period. I don't believe NextBigFuture would fabricate the images of slides, comments, and investor data, so I'm left wondering.....4 years later, where that 50kw power system has gone...
Dang. I had all (and I mean all) the stuff they had published on their website from the ~1999 to 2006 time frame. Deleted it a couple of years ago because the need to re-examine the material for some reason (like them deleting it or otherwise revising their history) as you describe above had never come up.
You can do anything you want with laws except make Americans obey them. | What I want to do is to look up S. . . . I call him the Schadenfreudean Man.

GIThruster
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Post by GIThruster »

tomclarke wrote:Maybe the 25 years is because they have nothing.

Consider, if they had what they claim, water-tight experimental evidence could easily be checked by NASA etc, people would believe, or at least sit up take notice. And BLP funding would be easier.

So why have they not done this?
Tom, its a common misconception that NASA does this sort of investigative work. When they happen to have someone who is well educated in the issue at hand, then they can make an attempt at this, as with Widom-Larsen theory; and recall that their investigators had 10 months of tutoring by Larsen. Conversely, despite the years of consistent lab results on the M-E work, NASA will not do an investigation because they say they simply do not have the people to do it. Remember NASA's technical people are primarily engineers, not physicists; and engineers seldom have the background to check things like M-E theory, so NASA isn't even checking the experimental apparatus, methods and protocols. My guess is the same is true of the BLP issue, since it is primarily chemistry and NASA is not full up on chemists. This is why I have been saying for years, that the real investigatory work needs to be ordered by congress and given to the National Academies of Science. This is the organization designed for just such an investigation, but to get one you need to spend at least a cool million dollars. So real answers to this issue are being neglected now for 25 years, and this is the history of all revolutions in scientific paradigms, at least according to Thomas Kuhn.

OTOH, universities have an abundance of chemists and that's why Rowan did the investigation they did. Now look at where it got them--nowhere. Even the people here, who claim to have an open mind, have excuse after excuse that they can't be bothered with BLP. It simply does not matter how much evidence there is, and how many world-class professionals are convinced--most people find skepticism an emotionally safe investment. If you don't mind being a coward, skepticism is a natural position for most people.

Fact is, if you're an enthusiast or optimistic about an emergent technology and it doesn't pan out, the skeptics will come out of the woodwork to make you pay for your optimism. OTOH, if you're an habitual skeptic that can't be bothered to give these sorts of issues the time of day, the enthusiasts and optimists will be too busy enjoying the moment to bother roasting the skeptics. Skepticism is an entirely safe position so long as one doesn't mind being a coward.

Chris, you made these unfounded assertions many months ago and still have no sources to back up your claims. You don't know if hydrinos can be captured at all. We certainly have no reason to suspect they're inert, especially given the claims that hydrino crystals exist. You're not a chemist and you're not conversant in the theory, or in the level of chemistry necessary to debunk BLP's claims. Given BLP has been publishing in the chemistry peer review journals and presenting at the American Chemical Society's annual conferences for many years, I'll take the response of the chemistry community over your uninformed presumptions.

And note now, 2 pages of responses and no evidence that anyone has read a single validation study. So what are y'all actually responding to?
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

Skepticism is an entirely safe position so long as one doesn't mind being a coward.
Bearing in mind that frontal assaults are a waste.

And taking a general look at the scam/reality ratio. Something on the order of 1E3 to 1E6 I'd say. Every now and then I have a fling. These days I endeavor to go into these areas with an "I'm probably being duped" attitude. Pot O Gold or sharp knives. Either way I'm having fun.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

Hydrinos? An appliance for canines I believe. Why do you ask?

======

I went back and forth about posting that and then thought of Chris.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Enginerd
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Post by Enginerd »

chrismb wrote:
GIThruster wrote:And honestly, I don't owe anyone the same tired explanations of how these sorts of objections fail miserably. They're just grade school errors anyone of intelligence ought to be able to see through. Not worth any more of my time.
When has it ever been explained to me why there is some 'miserable failure' of experimental objective with determining the presence of hydrino gas by trying to burn it?

The best tests of proof are the simplest.

Why complicate it by running NMR measurements and calorimetry at the limits of detectability when all you have to do is put a lighted splint in it?
Simple enough to test...
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
--Philip K. Dick

GIThruster
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Post by GIThruster »

I don't honestly think it's in any way reasonable, to pander to a high school understanding of chemistry and make specific demands for a certain kind of evidence, while ignoring what the real chemists consider evidence. I think that's just pandering to ignorance.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

ScottL wrote:Sadly, BLP has removed all links to prior slides, talks, charts, etc. that dealt with this time period. I don't believe NextBigFuture would fabricate the images of slides, comments, and investor data, so I'm left wondering.....4 years later, where that 50kw power system has gone...
Yeah, they've not panned out -- no new customers in years now. I wonder if Rossi/Defkalion will turn out the same way.

Mills doesn't seem very credible generally.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacklight_Power

Mills claims he has unified Maxwell's Equations, Newton's Laws, and Einstein's General and Special Relativity on the basis that they must hold on all scales from the subatomic to the cosmic. Mills has put forward his thesis in his book, originally called The Grand Unified Theory of Classical Quantum Mechanics (GUT-CQM), and later given the new title The Grand Unified Theory of Classical Physics (GUT-CP).

Okay, then.
n*kBolt*Te = B**2/(2*mu0) and B^.25 loss scaling? Or not so much? Hopefully we'll know soon...

ScottL
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Post by ScottL »

GIThruster wrote:I don't honestly think it's in any way reasonable, to pander to a high school understanding of chemistry and make specific demands for a certain kind of evidence, while ignoring what the real chemists consider evidence. I think that's just pandering to ignorance.
Come now, chemists we are not, but most of us have degrees or advanced degrees that required some significant chemistry. Based on your comment, I guess everyone has their Rossi.

ladajo
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Post by ladajo »

darn. I thought we were just a bunch of squabbling teenagers with excessive vocabularies.

Oh poop.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

GIThruster
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Post by GIThruster »

Scott, there are literally tens of thousands of data-points that have been generated in support of this stuff for decades. BLP has presented in front of the American Chemical Society each year for more than a decade. I posted the link to 6 investigations by PhD chemists from MIT and Cal-Tech, etc. and no one has bothered to read them. In light of this, Chris' insistence upon a test of his own devising, that panders to his inability to understand the data generated to date, is not value added. It's a bad joke.

Just sayin' folks, every time I post on this subject it's the same old same old. People ignore the evidence, ignore the experts, come up with excuses that they have a right to evidence not on offer and pretend they would be impressed if they had the oddball kinds of evidence they ask for.

I for one don't believe it at all. Doesn't matter that people here have this degree or that if their behavior is to ignore the evidence rather than try to understand it. Demanding a specific kind of evidence that the real chemists have not seems arrogant past understanding.

Seriously, if one wants to respond to the issue, then at least read this 1 minute long, 3 page paper written by a professor at Cal-Tech. Respond to something substantive:

http://www.blacklightpower.com/wp-conte ... Report.pdf
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

ScottL
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Post by ScottL »

How would you like us to read that paper? I couldn't help but read it as an advertisement for the "possibilities", but as it stands, it provided no proof fo claims, just micro experimental data without descriptions of the experiement or measuring devices. In previous data posted, which was more rigorously tested and procedurely defined, it was pointed out that some of the devices used for measurement aren't capable of the measurements claimed and that some of the analysis was just artifacts.

GIThruster
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Post by GIThruster »

That's nonsense, Scott. The last real evidence presented to the public was from Rowan and none of what you're talking about is true of that body of work, nor was it true of the work done up at Harvard. You're pulling factiods out of the air now that the old data has been archived and is no longer available.

Anyone who goes back through this thread and reads will find that the evidence in support of this work in formidable, and when a professor at Cal-Tech says this work is worthy of continued investigation, that is precisely the attitude you ought to take unless you think you know better.

In particular, one wants to note what the expert here considers important. ". . .it has been detected in a number of different ways which include upfield proton NMR spectra, soft X-ray continuum radiation from pure hydrogen pinch plasmas, X-ray photoelectron spectroscopy, and Doppler broadening of fast hydrogen in a plasma, the latter of which is particularly compelling." If like me, you are not highly educated in these analytic methods, you'd want to share this observation and judgement and look for explanations rather than decide you have a better method than the chemists.

Likewise, when we read from a professor at one of the most prestigious science and engineering schools in the world, "However, after having visited BLP, having participated in experimental design and execution, and having reviewed vast amounts of other data they have produced, I have found nothing that warrants rejection of their extraordinary claims. On balance, I recommend continued funding of BLP for at least another 24 months while they engage in catalyst optimization research and CIHT cell “numbering up” development." I think we ought to give a moment's pause and recognize we've turned a corner here. BLP hasn't ever seen this sort of endorsement before.

This is something new, as are the other 5 endorsements at the link I posted.
Last edited by GIThruster on Fri May 25, 2012 10:33 pm, edited 4 times in total.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

chrismb
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Post by chrismb »


--- On Thu, 14/10/10, Randell Mills <rmills@blacklightpower.com> wrote:

From: Randell Mills <rmills@blacklightpower.com>
Subject: Re: Q: What is the average energy state of hydrino gas?
To: "chrismb"
Date: Thursday, 14 October, 2010, 14:32
On Oct 14, 2010, at 8:59 AM, chrismb wrote:

...


>
> This dihydrino gas, then, must presumably be extremely
> chemically inert outside of the catalysed reactions you
> report, as no normal chemical reaction can release that much
> energy to pull that electron back up to the binding energy
> of conventional compounds.
>

correct


...

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