10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

[ladajo]

What about the other sample I have spoon fed you?

Factories, no factories, 1MW units, no 1MW units, Units operating, no units operating, etc. etc.

Your long list of "to wit:"s? I responded to each and every one of them. Not happy with the responses I have spoon fed you?

Well, umm, you have completely missed the fact that I went from the "to wits" to the "actual quotes". Kind of makes you look like a boob right now. I expect more of you.

Please read the quotes, and comment as you see fit.

[KitemanSA]

KitemanSA -

There is something weird about your posts on this thread. It gets under my skin. I guess the same with ladajo.

Sorry, it is not truly my intention to "get under your skin" though I suppose on occasion I can make statements in a fit of pique that could be interpreted that way. A saint I ain't.

It is surely clear that Rossi's comments, again and again, have turned out not to be true - or at least when interpreted as a normal person would are not true.

We will have to agree to disagre here. Folks who have no horse in this race could easily interpret the statements otherwise.

I don't think you need to be any specific type to see this from the evidence above.

A2disA. (Agree to disAgree)

If you start by assuming that Piantelli has found real LENR reactions and Rossi is doing something with this technology, the most favourable assumption, then presumably his stuff might work. However it is clear:

Rossi has never demonstrated this stuff working

I have never seen a conclusive demonstration.

As has been pointed out by others he behaves in a way indistinguishable from what would be expected were he a fraud.

And indistinguishable from a number of other situations like a megalomanic with delusional tedancies and an irate successful inventor who just wants people to basically go away. This last would TEND to be contra-indicated by his continued posting on that forum.

He repeatedly makes comments which contradict each other, and the facts. A few of these are documented above.

Statements that contradict each other are a fact of life. Life is NOT static. Things change. Plans change. Understanding of the world changes. Verbiage directed to one audience can be TOTALLY different than that directed to a different audience. "Don't worry, there is no radiation (you need to worry about) at all" to some who has just indicated extreme worry and "there is no radiation above background" to a more technical audience are effectively identical statements.

I'll just add one technical issue. The ash isotopic measurements of Kullander et al from his sample which showed tracs of copper with isotope ratio identical to natural abundance are damning. Rossi, challenged about this on his blog, leapt in to agree with a poster who suggested that maybe he isotopically enriched his nickel to explain what would otherwise be an inconsistency. However he also says that his catalyst is very cheap (sorry Kite, I can't be bothered to ferret out direct quote but it is there, as is the above converstaion, on his blog. I commented on this thread about it ages ago). It is inconceivable that Rossi invents both a viable LENR source and a new cheap way to isotopically enrich nickel! It is also highly suspicious that the reaction products should turn out coincidentally to have natural abundance. This was the fact that tipped me towards being strongly skeptical that he has anything, and also viewing Rossi statements as totally unreliable. (The two things are not quite the same).

Yup, highly skeptical.

The statements about US factories appear incontrovertably to be lies, since he claims existence of a factory producing E-cat's in US 12 months ago, and never having any such factory 1 month ago.

IIRC he said he had a factory "for the production" of ecats. Boeing has factories "for the production" of 777s all around the world. As far as I know, only one or two actually PRODUCE 777s. The rest just produce parts. And how do you know there were no factories 1 month ago?

The statements and retractions about testing of his device by NASA and UoB are so different from the other parties reports that they are grossly misleading.

"Point of View", or statements made at two points in time.

There is very strong evidence that he has asked for, and received, money from other parties for "licenses" to sell e-cats, all without any working E-cat.

Recently, yes, he says he has licenced most of the world. What does that have to do with anything?
You assume there is no working ecat because you haven't seen convincing evidence of it. What does that have to do with anything?

The most favourable interpretation of this is that he is a BSer of an extreme sort and therefore his statements about e-cats cannot be believed.

Schmoozer who should not be believed?

A superficially more likely interpretation is that he is a fraud.

you are entitled to your opinions.

His claims to show new technology therefore are less substantial than those of many "real" LENR reserchers: in spite of appearing stronger. That is true whatever your view of the likelihood of said other claims being true.

No argument.

[KitemanSA]

What about the other sample I have spoon fed you?

Factories, no factories, 1MW units, no 1MW units, Units operating, no units operating, etc. etc.

Your long list of "to wit:"s? I responded to each and every one of them. Not happy with the responses I have spoon fed you?

Well, umm, you have completely missed the fact that I went from the "to wits" to the "actual quotes". Kind of makes you look like a boob right now. I expect more of you.

Please read the quotes, and comment as you see fit.

I saw a LARGE number of "To wit:"s, which I answered, and a small number of quotes which I answered. In and amoung the PHD posts, did I miss a large number of quotes which I HAVEN'T answered??

[ladajo]

Yes. Pages 263 to 266 are a sample of Rossi quotes that contradict.

[tomclarke]

And how do you know there were no factories 1 month ago?

From:
http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/RossiEC ... Report.pdf

near last page.

This is an NRC allegation forwarded to us for investigation. It is alleged that owner is building a cold fusion reactor with no
radioactive components that when running emics 5 II KeV gammas, strength unknown. Investigator talked to owner and found all production, distribution and use ofthesc devices are overseas; therefore no action is required. Owner will seek UndernTicer Laboratories (UL) approval for manufacture in the US when the time comes. No further action will be taken on chis incident.

You will find earlier in the 15 pages a specific quote from Rossi that he has 300 working e-cats in his US factory, dated before the date of the investigation.

[ladajo]

You will find many quotes from Rossi claiming factories and Ecats operating in the US.

You will also find quotes from Rossi stating there are no Ecats or Factories in the US.

Rossi has claimed mulitple 1MW Ecats. He has also claimed that the Bologna Demo Unit was the first, after the other claims.

He is Full of Shyte and Smellith Bad. I keep wondering how long it will be before he takes down his personally provided oft quoted history of misstatements provided at JONP.

I also wonder when a viable Rossibot will comment on Seedload's postings instead of ignoring the clear contradictions they present.

Still waiting on Kite to explain the three pages of Rossi quotes demonstrating a pattern of lies, misdirection, and misrepresentations.

[tomclarke]

You will find many quotes from Rossi claiming factories and Ecats operating in the US.

You will also find quotes from Rossi stating there are no Ecats or Factories in the US.

Rossi has claimed mulitple 1MW Ecats. He has also claimed that the Bologna Demo Unit was the first, after the other claims.

He is Full of Shyte and Smellith Bad. I keep wondering how long it will be before he takes down his personally provided oft quoted history of misstatements provided at JONP.

I also wonder when a viable Rossibot will comment on Seedload's postings instead of ignoring the clear contradictions they present.

Still waiting on Kite to explain the three pages of Rossi quotes demonstrating a pattern of lies, misdirection, and misrepresentations.

The Rossibots have more or less been scared away from here. I think even parallel has now gone off Rossi? But they will still have their places where like-minded bots can worship. The bot index in such places seems to have got higher.

Kite is a Rossi-won't-connect-the-dots. Even when they are made with thick felt-tip.

PS - viable rossibot - oxymoron?

[Axil]

In a staging area or factory setup by Rossi, a few hundred working e-cats were built and tested in preparation for the US Navy demo. This military nuclear activity would have been regulated by the DOE in cooperation with the relevant service related nuclear agency authority.

After the acceptance of the e-cat technology by the US military, that “factory” which was actually only a shakedown and staging area for the DOD test would have been closed with the shipment of the e-cat equipment to a naval base somewhere in Florida.

A DOD automation subcontractor would have used this prototype equipment to develop an automated reactor power control system for the Navy.

To get the e-cat to power a stealth drone, The Navy should now be miniaturizing the E-cat reactor core and mating it to an airframe propulsion unit.

The NRC has no jurisdiction over military nuclear activity, the DOE and the relevant service related nuclear command would have project control authority.

IF you can understand the segregation of nuclear regulatory authority between the civilian and military nuclear organizations, together with the associated secrecy requirements of developing a highly classified long duration stealth based autonomous intelligence gathering platform, then your confusion about apparently contradicting bits of information will be resolved.


When dealing with secret DOD projects, a certain amount of misdirection and disinformation is to be expected.

Truth is not usually found in government let along in secret military projects.

If this standard DOD disinformation procedure bothers you, you should redirect your attention to the progress at Brillouin Energy systems in commercializing LENR as a litmus test for the commercial viability of this new nuclear technology.

[ladajo]

Axil,
Whatever you smoke, don't tell anyone. You might get in trouble.

Having worked inside Naval Nuclear Power, and been subject to its regulations and directives, I can say without hesitance, you are dreaming.

Can you tell me where the Secret Naval Nuclear Facility is in Florida? I am oh-so-curious.

On a separate note, as I re-skimmed the Florida BRC report and investigation, another point came to mind about RossiLies.

Rossi claimed several times that he was in process of UL certs. It would seem that this did not happen until AFTER the BRC investigation in February, where he told them that he WOULD SEEK UL certifications for future manufacturing.

Somebody needs to poke Florida BRC and show them where Rossi lied previously, claiming UL Cert processes, factories and Ecats operating in the US. It would seem that he really is at a minimum skirting the edge of false official statements. Or, he told the truth to BRC, and eveything he said before was a lie.

Strong evidence indicates, as of March, 2012, there was no factory, either under construction or in operation. BRC clearly stated in the investigation that they intended to go the factory, but they ended up only ever going to his "office" at the Condo.

I am of a half a mind to follow up myself with Florida BRC. Anyone else game?

[ladajo]

One also has to wonder how 10CFR31 and 32 apply to Rossi, and what he as done in that regard...

[seedload]

As the invention seems, at least at first, to offend against the generally accepted laws of physics and established theories, the disclosure should be detailed enough to prove to a skilled person conversant with mainstream science and technology that the invention is indeed feasible. This implies the provision of all data which the skilled person would need to carry out the claimed invention, since such a person, not being able to derive such data from any generally accepted theory, could not be expected to implement the teaching of the invention by trial and error.
In the present case, the invention does not provide experimental evidence (nor any firm theoretical basis) which would enable the skilled person to assess the viability of the invention. The description is essentially based on general statements and speculations which are not apt to provide a clear and exhaustive technical teaching.

"offend against". Golden!

I love that Rossi responds to this clearly stated reason for EPO preliminary rejection by staging more demos and then sending in links to the associated Nyteknik articles about them. That addresses nothing stated above.

Speaking about patent problems and lies, how about this statement?!?!

In this paper we report the results obtained with a process and apparatus not described here in detail and protected by patent in 90 countries

[Axil]

Whatever you smoke, don't tell anyone. You might get in trouble.

Rossi has stated that his 1 MW reactors was delivered to a military customer. You don’t choose to believe him. It logically follows that he would setup his company in close proximity to that customer.

Your agenda seems to have discouraged the use of logic in your thinking. Why are you so hostile to Rossi?

There are MANY venders of LENR power systems preparing to enter the market. Why are you fixated on disparaging Rossi when these other people should get your equal scurrilous attention?

I look forward to your reaction when the results from the various evaluators of the DGT reactors are released. Since DGT derived their reactor from Rossi, then a good evaluation of the DGT reactor reflects well on Rossi.

[seedload]

Whatever you smoke, don't tell anyone. You might get in trouble.

Rossi has stated that his 1 MW reactors was delivered to a military customer. You don’t choose to believe him.

Axil, the 1MW reactor was just recently spotted in a video sitting in the same place it was 6 months ago. Rossi said it didn't ship and won't for another couple months because of changes requested by the customer.

[tomclarke]

If this standard DOD disinformation procedure bothers you, you should redirect your attention to the progress at Brillouin Energy systems in commercializing LENR as a litmus test for the commercial viability of this new nuclear technology.

Attention redirected (briefly).

Other than a pretty web site, what have they got different from many other LENR reserchers? Do they have 3rd party verified energy generation under controlled conditions? They claim X2 is solved and they are working on X3.

Even X1.1 energy if continuous would be easily measurable, new physics, and lead to very high funding.

Oh, but the claim is power X2, now why does that not impress me so much?

[Axil]

Whatever you smoke, don't tell anyone. You might get in trouble.

Rossi has stated that his 1 MW reactors was delivered to a military customer. You don’t choose to believe him.

Axil, the 1MW reactor was just recently spotted in a video sitting in the same place it was 6 months ago. Rossi said it didn't ship and won't for another couple months because of changes requested by the customer.

You Rossi haters know more about Rossi’s business than the most fanatic Rossi fan; what is the motivation?

Could it be that you’re a crew of ex-Navy nuclear reactor jocks who hate to see that old fission horse die?