How to Fix Congress

[Diogenes]

Corporations likewise cannot lock you up for failing to obey them.

But you are fine with government doing that for highs you don't approve of.

This has nothing to do with disapproving of "highs", it has to do with
preventing people from spreading a dangerous drug to other unsuspecting victims. With these types of misdirections, you are doing the same thing in this argument that you do with your "vagina police" argument.

The issue of abortion has nothing to do with vaginas, and everything to do with life and death. Same with drugs. The issue has nothing to do with depriving people of harmless fun, but is instead entirely about the destruction to individuals lives caused by drug addiction.

Were there no adverse consequences, no one would object.

[MSimon]

Corporations likewise cannot lock you up for failing to obey them.

But you are fine with government doing that for highs you don't approve of.

This has nothing to do with disapproving of "highs", it has to do with
preventing people from spreading a dangerous drug to other unsuspecting victims. With these types of misdirections, you are doing the same thing in this argument that you do with your "vagina police" argument.

The issue of abortion has nothing to do with vaginas, and everything to do with life and death. Same with drugs. The issue has nothing to do with depriving people of harmless fun, but is instead entirely about the destruction to individuals lives caused by drug addiction.

Were there no adverse consequences, no one would object.

I am a consultant psychiatrist in Widnes, northern England and prescribe hard drugs such as heroin and cocaine. Ironically I may not prescribe hasheesh, nor opium nor coca. This is like being able to prescribe cognac but not wine. Nevertheless this policy has eliminated drug deaths, there is no H.I.V. infection, and a police study of our program shows a 15-fold fall in drug-related acquisitive crime. Most interestingly, the incidence of addiction has fallen 12-fold.

http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/201 ... lf-we.html

So it looks like you are promoting what you fear. Not unusual for people living in fear.

[ScottL]

Corporations likewise cannot lock you up for failing to obey them.

You're kidding right? Since when have they not had the monetary means to do so as they wish?

Cisco vs. Peter Adekeye
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news ... life.ars/1

Close enough to locking a person up I'd say.

[Diogenes]

I am a consultant psychiatrist in Widnes, northern England and prescribe hard drugs such as heroin and cocaine. Ironically I may not prescribe hasheesh, nor opium nor coca. This is like being able to prescribe cognac but not wine. Nevertheless this policy has eliminated drug deaths, there is no H.I.V. infection, and a police study of our program shows a 15-fold fall in drug-related acquisitive crime. Most interestingly, the incidence of addiction has fallen 12-fold.

http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/201 ... lf-we.html

So it looks like you are promoting what you fear. Not unusual for people living in fear.

I often find it difficult to keep up with you. I see the accusation that we are promoting what we fear, but it begs the question. England is not the United States. England is far more socialist, indulgent and tolerant. If this program was a success in England, it would likely have been adopted across the country.

Were it adopted across the Country and shown to be such a great success, even America could not fail to notice. The fact that none of this has yet happened calls into question the validity of the claims. Perhaps it is all in the transitional phase and shall eventually result in a Nobel prize or something.

In any case, if the far more Liberal and indulgent English have not adopted this approach wholesale as of yet, why should we grant it premature credibility?

[Diogenes]

Corporations likewise cannot lock you up for failing to obey them.

You're kidding right? Since when have they not had the monetary means to do so as they wish?

Cisco vs. Peter Adekeye
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news ... life.ars/1

Close enough to locking a person up I'd say.

By your standard any woman crying rape is as dangerous as a corporation, and still you ignore the fact of government complicity in the denying of this man his freedom.

You seriously underestimate the width and breadth of the government's superiority in damaging or destroying freedom as compared with any corporation. It is as the difference of a lightning bug to lightning.

On a side issue, the man was accused of accessing Cisco's internal network. I just read this article today.

The little-known law at issue is called the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. It was enacted in 1986 to punish computer hacking. But Congress has broadened the law every few years, and today it extends far beyond hacking. The law now criminalizes computer use that “exceeds authorized access” to any computer. Today that violation is a misdemeanor, but the Senate Judiciary Committee is set to meet this morning to vote on making it a felony.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 60896.html

[ScottL]

Accused being the key word. It was Cisco that insisted of this action, not the .gov

[Diogenes]

Accused being the key word. It was Cisco that insisted of this action, not the .gov

Are you unaware of how the criminal justice system works? You accuse someone of a crime, they get arrested. It's. That. Simple.

If it turns out that someone was falsely accused, they have a (civil) cause of action against the accuser, but of course, no recourse whatsoever for the government locking them up.

You may think Cisco overreacted, but a lot of large companies are very worried about industrial espionage/sabotage. To them, someone getting unauthorized access to their network is a VERY BIG DEAL. Apparently the authorities considered the charge sufficiently serious, so they acted in accordance with their SOP.

[MSimon]

Swiss Heroin Maintenance Program Declared a Success

HARM REDUCTION
August 1997

After a three-year evaluation, Switzerland's state-distributed heroin maintenance program has been declared a success by law enforcement and health officials (Clare Nullis, "Swiss call heroin program a success," Boston Globe, July 11, 1997, p. A2; Associated Press, "Swiss call heroin giveaway program a success," Chicago Tribune (Southwest Edition), July 11, 1997, s. 1 p. 19; Clare Nullis, "Swiss heroin program cuts crime," Philadelphia Inquirer, July 11, 1997, p. A20).

http://www.ndsn.org/august97/swiss.html

D,

You know why you never heard of a country wide success in the UK?

Because at the insistence of the US the program was shut down. You can look it up.

=====

Of course you can't keep up. I have been studying the subject for the last 40 years. Intensively for the last 12.

You only study it when you need to "refute" me.

===

And this my "for medicine it is OK" friend.

“In 1976 Gerald Ford forbade the US Government’s sponsorship of any public research on marijuana and its effect on cancer.”

http://classicalvalues.com/2011/09/mari ... -medicine/

Think of how many people that has killed prematurely.

And from the same link.

“The current understanding recognizes the role that endocannabinoids play in almost every major life function in the human body.”

And yet the FDA/DEA combine makes it very difficult to do research in the US on the medical uses of pot.

So are you out there screaming about this lack of research in the US on the CB systems? I haven't noticed.

The "Ethical" Drug Cartel owns the FDA. Here you have a medicine that can help a lot of people for pennies (more like tenths of a cent) a dose and it can't get through the current regulatory hurdles. Accident or intention? Or just crony capitalism gone amuck?

[MSimon]

It turns out that anxiety disorders are the most common mental health problem in the United States. They are worth $46 billion a year to the pharmaceutical industry. You don't suppose this fact has any thing to do with the pharmaceutical industries being in the forefront of the Drug Free America campaign do you? Of course not. They are just trying to keep you from being addicted to natural products at the cost of 1/10th of a cent per dose when they are more than willing to sell you an FDA and doctor approved, pharmacy sold product that will do the job for a dollar a dose. They have only your best interests at heart. Just ask their accountants.

http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/200 ... ation.html

We have a government that is actively working against the American people and for the cartels - legal and illegal. So what else is new?

http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/201 ... -ptsd.html

Let me add that the study has not yet passed all the regulatory hurdles. I explain why in the article.

[MSimon]

"I know of no other crime prevention program with such a big reduction in theft and other serious crimes," said Martin Killias of the Institute of Police Science and Criminology.

http://www.ndsn.org/august97/swiss.html

[MSimon]

Cannabinoid System in Neuroprotection, Raphael Mechoulam,PhD

http://youtu.be/ZI2VT2kOfnM

He discusses in passing why pot may help with heart disease.

[MSimon]

Patients Out of Time is pleased to be a contributer to Len Richmond's important new film, "What if Cannabis Cured Cancer", which features video of Raphael Mechoulam, PhD and Robert Melamede, PhD from our 2004 National Clinical Conference on Cannabis Therapeutics.

http://www.medicalcannabis.com/Promotio ... red-cancer

[MSimon]

Patients Out of Time strongly believes that the greatest risk to patients who use cannabis is its prohibition. With the prohibition there is no quality control of cannabis and patients do not receive education about the risks and benefits or the appropriate dose and route of administration. Physicians are intimidated by the law and fear the consequences of a patient using a potentially contaminated unregulated product. Nurses are expected to educate their patients about the safe use of their medications and here too, some nurses may be concerned with the lack of quality control for this prohibited medicine. Healthcare professionals are encouraged to explore and consider the ethical issues involved in this unjust medicinal cannabis prohibition.

http://www.medicalcannabis.com/Healthca ... cal-ethics[/b]

[Diogenes]

Swiss Heroin Maintenance Program Declared a Success

HARM REDUCTION
August 1997

After a three-year evaluation, Switzerland's state-distributed heroin maintenance program has been declared a success by law enforcement and health officials (Clare Nullis, "Swiss call heroin program a success," Boston Globe, July 11, 1997, p. A2; Associated Press, "Swiss call heroin giveaway program a success," Chicago Tribune (Southwest Edition), July 11, 1997, s. 1 p. 19; Clare Nullis, "Swiss heroin program cuts crime," Philadelphia Inquirer, July 11, 1997, p. A20).

http://www.ndsn.org/august97/swiss.html

I would think three years is insufficient time to declare something a "Success." Drug addiction is a lifetime problem.

D,

You know why you never heard of a country wide success in the UK?

Because at the insistence of the US the program was shut down. You can look it up.

That sounds rather conspiracy-ish. Do the Brits not have any more backbone of their own?

Of course you can't keep up. I have been studying the subject for the last 40 years. Intensively for the last 12.

You only study it when you need to "refute" me.

And then only on occasion. I regard many of your arguments on drug legalization to be self refuting. One thing I find tremendously amusing is how often you decry the "progressives", while mimicking the exact tactics they used to push their agenda in the early 1900s. They would drown their political opponents in the "latest scientific studies" to push their agenda.

Reformers tended to value scientific studies and the recommendations of professional "experts" whether they were promoting efficiencies in society or fighting corruption in politics.

Progressivism meant expertise, and the use of science, engineering, technology and the new social sciences to identify the nation's problems, and identify ways to eliminate waste and inefficiency and to promote modernization. The reformers of the Progressive Era advocated the Efficiency movement. Progressives assumed that anything old was encrusted with inefficient and useless practices. A scientific study of the problem would enable experts to discover the "one best solution."

And this my "for medicine it is OK" friend.

“In 1976 Gerald Ford forbade the US Government’s sponsorship of any public research on marijuana and its effect on cancer.”

http://classicalvalues.com/2011/09/mari ... -medicine/

Think of how many people that has killed prematurely.

He probably saw such research as an intentional end run around drug laws. Then as now, it's possible to find an "expert" to proclaim anything is this way or that way. Look at Dr. Henry Lee in the O.J. Simpson trial. Apparently he could prove by blood splatter evidence that a guy who killed two people in cold blooded murder, actually didn't do it!

If Ford had not prohibited it, dozens if not hundreds of experts would have immediately proclaimed it the most amazing wonder drug since penicillin! He was having none of that nonsense.

And from the same link.

“The current understanding recognizes the role that endocannabinoids play in almost every major life function in the human body.”

And yet the FDA/DEA combine makes it very difficult to do research in the US on the medical uses of pot.

So are you out there screaming about this lack of research in the US on the CB systems? I haven't noticed.

No, I don't consider the problem as important as many other problems that we are currently facing. The number one problem in my mind is the possibility that they are about to collapse the dollar (the value of which is entirely imaginary anyway) and thereby cause mass rioting and starvation when people realize their savings are worth nothing.

Back in High school I had a good friend who thought the most important issue in the world was racism. That is all he would talk about. Regardless of the topic, it invariably led back to a discussion of racism. I eventually told him that I understood his concern for the issue, but from my perspective, the issue which we most needed to be concerned about was the fact that the Russians had ~ 20,000 nuclear weapons pointed at us, and the possibility existed that 200 million Americans could be killed within an hour. After that, it was reckless finances on the part of our American Government. Racism could be on the list, but it wasn't either of the top two things I worried about. I urged him to get some perspective. He eventually understood what I meant. He didn't drop the racism issue, but it was greatly subdued thereafter.

The "Ethical" Drug Cartel owns the FDA. Here you have a medicine that can help a lot of people for pennies (more like tenths of a cent) a dose and it can't get through the current regulatory hurdles. Accident or intention? Or just crony capitalism gone amuck?

Probably a lot of factors including skepticism. People have been arguing for a long time that recreational drugs have medicinal benefits. This argument reminds me of that case of the man who posed as a doctor and went through one neighborhood door to door telling women that he was there to give them a free "breast exam".

Some women fell for it. He was eventually caught and arrested. Needless to say, it is a good idea to maintain skepticism when presented with an idea by individuals that have a vested interest in your acceptance of the idea. You can see incompetence in this, and you can see cronyism, and you might even be right. The truth is probably a combination of some parts of all of the above.

[MSimon]

The Swiss voted for heroin clinics twice. The second time by a greater margin.

But you know how stupid the Swiss are.

=====

Conspiracy theory? Your ignorance is again showing. Pity.

From http://www.runcornandwidnesweeklynews.c ... -27086372/

Dr Marks – now the clinical director of psychiatry at Gisborne Hospital in New Zealand, told the Weekly News: “The clinic gained the attention of Chief Inspector Bing Spear of the Home Office Drugs Branch in the mid-1980s and he became an enthusiastic supporter.

“From that beginning, the harm reduction policy was formulated and became an NHS model of good practice.

“Similar clinics were rolled out throughout the country and there was a lot of foreign interest.

“Switzerland and Germany modelled their services explicitly on it and eventually there came American attention.”

It was with the visit of US current affairs programme 60 Minutes in 1990 that America’s Republican administration became aware of the little Widnes clinic, and – Dr Marks alleges – then put pressure on the British Government to close it down for ideological reasons.

He said: “After it aired I got a sudden phone call from Bing who said: ‘Why didn’t you let us know about 60 Minutes?’.

“I replied honestly that I’d forgotten all about them among the plethora of other visitors, had no idea that their report had been broadcast nor that the Home Office would be interested in TV programmes about clinics.

“Bing replied ‘That’s a pity. We’re getting real heat from our embassy in Washington and Maggie’s got her knickers in a twist over the whole issue’.

“In short order the Halton Health District was dissolved, Bing Spear had resigned and was replaced by a man called Alan MacFarlane – who later described me as ‘dangerous’.”