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My area sometime has power outages, occasionally for days. I don't have a backup generator. I was wondering in case of an extended power outage/emergency happens to me, I was thinking of the following purchases.

The Coleman stove: http://www.coleman.com/product/dual-fue ... egory=2020

Wonder if this would be safe to use indoors, for cooking if I had a window cracked? Probably should get a First alert CO detector as well. My ADT alarm system has a smoke detector, with a battery backup, should probably look into whether that includes a CO detector. On the other hand I do have two fireplaces in my house that haven't been used in years. Wonder if I could just put the stove if need be in the fireplace, that would take care of fumes.


And for meals: http://www.thehomesecuritysuperstore.co ... 184-p=3472

This seems better than military MRI's, you get more meals for less money, since you are doing the cooking.

Any useful comments or suggestions anyone has feel free.

I have the dual fuel stove and it will burn anything given the proper prep.
I also use the duel Lantern and it works fine as well.
(I have done a lot of camping :>)
As for the food thing we just keep a supply of what we eat. The pantry is set up first in first out and everything gets restocked once in a while. We have a lot of rice (Asian wife) so normally we keep 50 pounds of rice on hand at any given time and it’s cheap when bought in bulk.
If you’re on a budget 50 pound of rice and 50 pounds of pinto beans and one large bottle of vitamins will keep you fat and happy for fewer than 100 Dollars. And will keep for years when properly stored.
It just depends on what you want. I personally am trying to move as far away from “grid” support as possible. I have a garden, a small solar charging station. Solar heat and soon hot water.. But I also have all these thing from the grid as well. I just like the idea if someone pulls the plug life goes on with little interruption. After seeing first hand how the government failed with Katrina I decided to take maters into my own hands.
I believe every family should be set up for living without outside support for two weeks or more if possible. Of course there are cheaper and easier ways to do everything but I would suggest reading builditsolar.com as a start and then build a few things at a time. Mother earth news is also a good source of self sufficient ideas until you feel good. And most importantly use your plan to see if it really works for you. It does no good if you unfamiliar with what you have or do not know what it takes to use it. I.G dehydrated food, do you have a source of clean water?

On the subject of generators I have a small 2000 watt Honda. just enough to keep the fridge and freezer going. It sips gas and is quiet. My neighbor has a 7500 watt generator and ran out of fuel on day three of our last hurricane. I on the other hand could have run for weeks with what he burned in hours. Just something to think about.
one other thing is the caloric count of some of these kits. Many will only supply 1000 a day and you really need twice that to survive and if your doing manual labor even more.

Thanks for the response. No, I don't have a source of clean water, other than my house water of course. My water has never been off for any period that I can think of, knock wood. I have a gas water heater & gas forced-air furnace, the only time the gas was off was when the gas company a few years back detected a leak and actually had to dig up my yard (at their expense) and replace. I live in a suburb; biggest issue is electric power outages. Had two this year I remember, the last one about a month ago power was off about 12 hours. A few years ago there was a big one that lasted for several days, but my power (but not neighbors a block over) stayed on. I could probably afford your little generator, but don't think it would run my furnace and central AC. The 6500W one Honda makes probably would, but is obviously much more expensive, and there is the issue of having to keep filling it with gasoline, that tank that comes with it isn't that big. Don't know if it wouldn't make more sense just to save my money until I could afford a better generator. I have heard of the 12KW ones that you can hook onto your gas lines, but their obviously even more expensive. Just wondered if I could use a Coleman (or similar) camping stove indoors, maybe stick it in my fireplace for ventilation. I would probably need to have someone look at my fireplaces first before I started to burn Coleman’s (or for that matter wood), since they haven't been used in years.

paperburn1 wrote: one other thing is the caloric count of some of these kits. Many will only supply 1000 a day and you really need twice that to survive and if your doing manual labor even more.
.

Thanks. Noticed with that link I posted, they didn't say anything about the caloric content of each "meal". Your right that could be important. According to the calorie need calculator I found, I would need approx. 2000 calories a day. Probably more if I had to do manual labor outside for whatever reason.

Your Coleman could easily be used to cook in your fireplace and as the heat is not that high the chimney would be fine. BUT I would be very conscious of the CO and not run it when your sleeping or actively use it to heat. (using it to heat the fireplace would most likely draw out more heat than you put in) and having it checked before use with wood is an excellent idea.
The generator I talked about could only run you refrigerator and freezer and maybe two or three light bulbs.
I have a little 5000 BTU window unit that that generator can run as well. I figure all I need is to keep the bedroom cool to sleep and I will be fine. (I live on the coast in North Carolina.) it only burns two gallons a day running full time so the gas I in the car would keep me running for a week at least and if rationed a lot longer. I also have a little heater called Buddy heater that has a connection that I can run it off a 20 pound bottle that's on my BBQ grill. Between that and an electric heat pad for the bed I can keep cool in the summer , keep warm in the winter . Eat drink and be merry for at least 30 days without the support of the grid. All for the low cost of 2500 dollars and as I have been in four hurricane where I have lost power I can tell you it is worth every penny.
So to recap
Food I have a pantry set up with shelf's that let can goods roll forward so everything stays in date. I put the new cans in back and restock as needed. Works very good because you buy the food you normally eat and once set up it self sustaining. The only thing is I keep extra rice and beans that I bought in bulk. (COSTCO or SAMS)
A small 2000 watt generator. For fuel I just fill up the cars and van so storage of gas is not a problem.
I also have a small 500 inverter so I run my laptop and electric blanket from the car battery.
battery powered radio without battery's installed
a Coleman dual fuel stove and Lantern with extra wicks and a couple Bic lighters
A 5000 BTU window ac to keep cool in the summer
A heater buddy(brand name) that has an extra hose so I can hook up to a 20 pound BBQ bottle
I also have a well but that is for watering the garden and yard. I could use it in a pinch.(I too have never lost city water)
I also have a 45 watt harbor freight solar panel kit (but this is not needed I got it for fun and once I really started to study solar power I realized I could have better spent the money on different solar equipment and gotten a lot more for the dollar. The idea was to charge the car battery without burning gas. More on solar later if your interested.)

You can build this up over time and not receive a huge hit in the wallet and it will not lose any value over time unlike buying those survival kits. It will all fit in a large plastic tot except for the food and store neatly out of the way until needed. shopping around and at pawn shops you can save even more.
Home defense
One shotgun, One solar powered electric fencer and roll of wire. To keep rabbits and zombies out of the garden/ house

I lose power frequently -- sometimes for many days.

For me, the answer eventually became a portable generator rated at 5KW. I use a gasoline fueled Generac (it was a price-point decision), but there are tri-fuel machines available (gasoline/propane/ NG) that are real nice. And the Japanese brands are superior.

I have an electrical sub panel and an exterior port for power. You will then be able to power key circuits without risk of back feeding the grid. In my house, I am able to run my furnace, well water pump, several lights, TV, fridge, computers, and microwave without a problem. You can probably have a similar setup for under $1200.00. The main cost is having the sub-panel installed -- which you can do without if you want to run extension cords all over...but you will have to do something special for your furnace and install some type of mechanical switch that will disconnect it from your house and allow it to plug into an extension cord for power.

You don't have to run the genset system 24x7 to keep your house warm and your freezer/fridge cold if you are worried about gasoline consumption. Just a few hours in the day and a few at night is sufficient. This will only burn a few gallons. You can also supplement heat with a fireplace, wood stove, or even a Kerosene heater.

Make sure you maintain your generator religiously and keep 5-10 gallons of stabilized fuel on hand at all times and you will be well rewarded when you need to use it.

By the way, IIRC, most Coleman stoves were designed for outdoor use only. Do not burn fuel indoors in any device unless it is intended for indoor use. You and your family could die -- and very swiftly. I used a Kerosene heater before I got my generator system and I was paranoid about CO. Always made sure it was clean and only used the proper K1 Kero fuel, and ran it with a window cracked and with a battery operated CO detector in the room as well.

Joe is right.
FYI the heater buddy has build in sensors to help keep you safe. That was reason I stated that brand but in rereading my post I saw that was not clear. I do not run the heater unattended. The electric blanket will keep you plenty warm when you sleep and only draw a little electric from the battery/inverter setup.

If you know what you are doing, it is easy and quick to rig a generator (2-4K is plenty for the average house), and keep yourself in power. Most furnaces/boilers use very little load to run the controls and valves. In fact, most you can adapt to run off a 12V battery if you are really pressed, but that is generally beyond the layman.

If you are unsure as to what you are doing, then have an electrican come in and rig a dedicated hookup for you generator. If you are smart, you will buy a 3 or 4K 240VAC 3 Phase output unit, and have your electrician rig the connector across your panel. That way you get full run of the house. Just keep an eye on how much your turn on, avoid big stuff like ACs or large microwaves and you should be good. A little trial and error goes a long way on load management if you are not inclined to go around checking labels on things and adding them up. Personally, I know what I am doing, so I back feed my house on two circuits when needed (I use heavy duty cords and connect one to each side of the panel), or I use two cords to one of my 30amp garge plugs, and put a jumper across the bars in my panel. It depends on how long I think I will need to run the generator (worst here on the island has been about 10 days in my experience). That powers my house except for the 3 phase stuff. One of these days, I will replace the gen I have with a three phase one. Or, if I get bored, I will redo the winding taps on it, and rig a 3 phase output plug. Easy enough as well.

Another overlooked point about home generators is placement. Make sure that your run spot is sheltered from extreme weather. Go so far as to building a simple plywood box if need be to provide it some cover. When the storm is cranking and temps are down, you would be surprised how fast your generator carborator can ice up and stop working. Or how fast that "weather proof" panel discovers how weather proof it isn't. I once had to use accumulating snow to build a windbreak bunker around my generator to keep it running. Before I did that, it froze over about three times. Now I have a shelter spot which also has easy access from inside the house. For fuel, that depends on your demand. Also oil for lubrication. I generally keep about 15 gallons of gas at the house for generator usage (3K unit). I rotate it through the year with yard tool usage. I also always keep some spare oil on hand. When I do my changes, I rotate the stock.

As for general home ideas;

Have a well with a manual pump capability. In the non-emergent times, you can use it to water your grass and garden. Much cheaper than paying storm water fees. Plus you get free accessble water if you ever need it to survive.

Have a garden. Practice at it. Learn what grows well for your area, how to plant it, and when. We do, and it is good fun as well. Get some nice veggies.

If you have space, have some chickens. Free eggs, pretty cheap, and easy maintenance. Biggest expense up front is a coop. 6 chickens dropping an egg a day or so is a lot of eggs.

Have a gas furnace and hot water. These units use very little power (if any for hot water) to run. Also, have a tap pulled off your house to feed a grill outside. Very easy to do. Gas lines will run a while with no power. Plus if you really want, you can put in your own backup tank, and then if city goes down, you still have gas for some time. Easy to do, and well worth it when you need it.

Have a fireplace or woodstove. I like woodstoves, because you can cook on them if need be. Have a stash of firewood, a cord will last you a bit if you are careful how you burn it. I used to run my house in NH on about 6-8 cords for the entire winter, sole method of heating. One woodstove downstairs in a fireplace, and a fireplace upstairs. The stove was also convertable for coal use. Some years I would just burn coal.

Have a shotgun, and if you are near a wooded area, a .22 carbine for game hunting. You can have a high power if you wish, but that only makes sense if you think you will need to go after large animals for food. Not likely though for the average dude. Think about fishing and access to it. Good way to go if you can.

Keep about 4 weeks of food on hand. Canned, dried etc. Rotate it out through the year so it does not go stagnant on you. You can keep water, but if you have a well, have a means to purify and store temporarily for daily use. We also had a rain tank when I was younger. When I lived in Europe, it was very common to have water cistern in your house in the area I was in. Ours was always full, and we used it often enough due to power and water outages, I stopped noticing.

Do not forget protein in your food stores. Also fatty foods. Doesn't have to be meat based. But it is important.

Think about where you will go as a fallback once you have exhausted your home of resources. If you can structure your home, that you can make a long or permanent run of it, all good. But if it comes to that, you may still need to bug out for other reasons. Having a plan and bugout kit ahead of time is well worth the effort. In that case an ounce of prevention is worth 100 pounds of cure. When I did field work with the military, we always rigged for this. We called it lines. 1st line, 2nd and 3rd. This kitting and gear was designed to sustain you for periods of time. You jocked up with area in mind, and also if you had to bolt, at a minimum your 1st line was essentially part of your body. You knew what you had and what you could do with it. If you had time, you took 2nd, 3rd. Similar planning for your home is useful

If you go with weapons, fine, but don't get silly about it. Don't forget basic tools as well. That includes the means to do tool maintenance.
It is also usefull to keep some basic materials on hand as well to work with. You never know when you may need to fashion something or make a repair. Think window boarding over, or drying rack, etc.

Well, that is the heart of my 10cents worth. Hope it helps.

williatw wrote:

paperburn1 wrote: one other thing is the caloric count of some of these kits. Many will only supply 1000 a day and you really need twice that to survive and if your doing manual labor even more..

Thanks. Noticed with that link I posted, they didn't say anything about the caloric content of each "meal". Your right that could be important. According to the calorie need calculator I found, I would need approx. 2000 calories a day. Probably more if I had to do manual labor outside for whatever reason.

Good call, found some more information from another source, admittedly a competitor but still:

http://www.preparewise.com/120-serving- ... ucket.html


Servings 120 Avg. Calories per Serving 372 Total Calories 44,640 2,000 Calorie Days 22.32 Cost per Day $11.65 Cost per Year $4,251.79 Shelf Life 25 Years Residual O2 Content 0.11% Configuration Pouches in Buckets Large Buckets 1 Medium Buckets - Small Buckets - Loose Pouches - Total Pouches 30 Weight 30.68 Pounds (lb) Total Dimensions 1.59 Cubic Feet Shipping Configuration Box

I calculated about 25 days for one $260 bucket, assuming 1800 calories per day @ about $10-11/day, not too bad; would still need a way to boil water though, maybe that propane/ng Coleman stove used in my fireplace should work. Best I could do until I got a generator setup.

paperburn1 wrote:The generator I talked about could only run you refrigerator and freezer and maybe two or three light bulbs. I have a little 5000 BTU window unit that that generator can run as well. I figure all I need is to keep the bedroom cool to sleep and I will be fine. (I live on the coast in North Carolina.) it only burns two gallons a day running full time so the gas I in the car would keep me running for a week at least and if rationed a lot longer. I also have a little heater called Buddy heater that has a connection that I can run it off a 20 pound bottle that's on my BBQ grill. Between that and an electric heat pad for the bed I can keep cool in the summer , keep warm in the winter . Eat drink and be merry for at least 30 days without the support of the grid. All for the low cost of 2500 dollars and as I have been in four hurricane where I have lost power I can tell you it is worth every penny.

Appreciate the feedback allot to chew over. However in lieu of the Honda Generator I did come across:


http://www.wholesalepowertools.com/gene ... MgodEkMAyQ

Cost about $2900, but doesn't say anything about installaton costs. Attaches into your natural gas lines which I aleady have for my house's furnance & water heater, so no need to keep refueling. I have never lost gas during power outages, and it has built in transfer switches.

That thing is overkill for the average home.
You can find 3K units for about $300, sometimes less on sale.

But fair point about using natural gas, as I also mentioned above. The same applies to having a pony tank tapped in as well. You charge it up off the city or by truck (if cheaper), and then keep it as a reserve in case the city does go away. Although that 10K unit you found is going to eat it up a lot faster than a 3K would.

williatw wrote:My area sometime has power outages, occasionally for days. I don't have a backup generator. I was wondering in case of an extended power outage/emergency happens to me, I was thinking of the following purchases.

The Coleman stove: http://www.coleman.com/product/dual-fue ... egory=2020

Wonder if this would be safe to use indoors, for cooking if I had a window cracked? Probably should get a First alert CO detector as well. My ADT alarm system has a smoke detector, with a battery backup, should probably look into whether that includes a CO detector. On the other hand I do have two fireplaces in my house that haven't been used in years. Wonder if I could just put the stove if need be in the fireplace, that would take care of fumes.


And for meals: http://www.thehomesecuritysuperstore.co ... 184-p=3472

This seems better than military MRI's, you get more meals for less money, since you are doing the cooking.

Any useful comments or suggestions anyone has feel free.

CO is the killer not the smoke.
Never use a fossil fuel stove/generator indoors unless installed by a professional. Don't be a stupid statistic.

ladajo wrote:That thing is overkill for the average home.
You can find 3K units for about $300, sometimes less on sale.

But fair point about using natural gas, as I also mentioned above. The same applies to having a pony tank tapped in as well. You charge it up off the city or by truck (if cheaper), and then keep it as a reserve in case the city does go away. Although that 10K unit you found is going to eat it up a lot faster than a 3K would.

The key so far as I can tell is whether you have central air (I do). That's what needs the more expensive 10K or better, minus that (central air) the smaller much cheaper portable generators would do.

When the feces hit the rotary impeller I don't see central AC as the highest priority.