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The Atlantic spouts heresy...

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:00 pm
by JLawson
Whoops. Looks like maybe someone's got a clue there. Quick - find him and string him up lest the others get infected!

The Republican Party Isn't Really the Anti-Science Party
"On global warming, conservative policy positions often seem to be conflated or confused with rejection of the consensus that the planet has been warming due to human carbon emissions. The climate trend over the last several hundred years is not one anybody credible disputes—despite the impression you might get from GOP presidential primary debates. Of the many Republican members of Congress I know personally, the vast majority do not reject the underlying science of global warming (though, embarrassingly, some still do). Even Senator Jim Inhofe, perhaps the green community’s greatest antagonist in Congress, explicitly endorses environmental regulation.

The catch: Conservatives believe many of the policies put forward to address the problem will lead to unacceptable levels of economic hardship. It's not inherently anti-scientific to oppose cap and trade or carbon taxes. What most Republicans object to are policies that unilaterally make it more expensive in the United States to produce energy, grow food, and transport people and goods but are unlikely to make much long-term difference in the world’s climate, given that other major world economies emit more carbon than the United States or have much faster growth rates of carbon emissions (China, India, Russia, and Brazil all come to mind).

The more important question on climate change is not “how do we eliminate carbon immediately?” but “how best do we secure a cleaner environment and more prosperous world for future generations?”"

I'd suggest nuclear power, personally.
It is on this subject that many on the political left deeply hold some serious anti-scientific beliefs. Set aside the fact that twice as many Democrats as Republicans believe in astrology, a pseudoscientific medieval farce. Left-wing ideologues also frequently espouse an irrational fear of nuclear power, genetic modification, and industrial and agricultural chemistry—even though all of these scientific breakthroughs have enriched lives, lengthened lifespans, and produced substantial economic growth over the last century.
Huh. Fancy the Atlantic actually admitting that...
Examining greenhouse-gas emissions in exact terms, three of our biggest sources of emissions are electricity generation, transportation, and agriculture. With widespread adoption of nuclear technology, we could conceivably cut out more than 70 percent of our total emissions by eliminating the pollution from burning petroleum for transportation and coal for electricity generation (Nobel Prize-winning physicist Burton Richter explains this in his slightly technical but readable Beyond Smoke and Mirrors).
24/7 power, not liable to disappear when the sun goes down or the wind stops blowing? Why, that's loony!
One result of caricaturing the GOP as the “bad guys” is that the Obama and the Democrats get a free pass on bad decisions that undermine long-term basic research.

Nuclear power is the only energy source that can actually meet base-load power requirements for a cost competitive KW/h price with almost zero carbon emissions. One of the largest hurdles to nuclear energy is storage of byproduct waste, something Obama dealt a huge blow when he halted the development of Yucca Mountain for what the Government Accountability Office called strictly political reasons. Republicans in Congress have repeatedly supported moving forward with Yucca Mountain.
But nukes is bad, mm'kay? Right? I mean, Chernobyl! Nagasaki! Three Mile Island! Fukushima! Think of the CHILDREN! (Sob, sob, sob.) Do you WANT them to grow up thinking nuclear power is SAFE when it so obviously isn't?
As for agricultural emissions, the purpose of GMOs is to use less area, less energy, less pesticide, and less maintenance than conventional crops. They also mean we can grow food in new areas around the globe. With the tools to feed the world with viable crops closer to the poles, we can preserve the more biodiverse regions close to the equatorial zones.

Stewart Brand, the 1960s environmental activist, has bemoaned opposition to genetically modified organisms as “irrational, anti-scientific, and very harmful.” The anti-GMO movement, largely a product of the political left, has reached levels of delusion, paranoia and anti-intellectualism worthy of Michele Bachmann and young-earth creationists.
GMOs are bad because... well, they're not natural! If God (or some other deity, or sheer random chance) had intended for us to have 'Golden Rice' with high levels of Vitamin A to stave off blindness in children, we'd have had it - and not had to depend on SCIENCE to give it to us! THAT is why they're bad!

OW! I think I sprained a neuron with that last bit...

Simply put - a lot of the leftist thought about 'This is what conservatives are like, hur hur hur' doesn't hold up to any sort of group examination. And a lot of what leftists seem to think isn't any more 'rational' than what they believe conservatives think.

Funny how reality doesn't much care about ideology, isn't it?

Re: The Atlantic spouts heresy...

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:36 pm
by choff
The big critique I hear about GMO is that they're trying to monopolize the seeds, if the wind blows theirs over to the non GMO farm they sue the non GMO farmer. In essence, the GMO companies want a patent on life itself, the ability to grow food. Just try growing some types of seed potatoes or keep a chicken for eggs on your property and watch the regulatory fun begin.

Re: The Atlantic spouts heresy...

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:31 pm
by JLawson
choff wrote:The big critique I hear about GMO is that they're trying to monopolize the seeds, if the wind blows theirs over to the non GMO farm they sue the non GMO farmer. In essence, the GMO companies want a patent on life itself, the ability to grow food. Just try growing some types of seed potatoes or keep a chicken for eggs on your property and watch the regulatory fun begin.
Homeowner associations take a dim view of keeping chickens, too. Seems to me like it's a lot more of a regulatory quibble than a 'OMG, it'll kill us!' thing.

Re: The Atlantic spouts heresy...

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:41 pm
by choff
With the chickens it's also a bird flu worry, but there are other critiques of GMO, one being it's over rated compared to traditional seeds, or it produces one good crop exhausting the soil before bankrupting the farmer.

Re: The Atlantic spouts heresy...

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:59 pm
by MSimon
choff wrote:With the chickens it's also a bird flu worry, but there are other critiques of GMO, one being it's over rated compared to traditional seeds, or it produces one good crop exhausting the soil before bankrupting the farmer.
As opposed to "natural" crops which produce one good crop exhausting the soil before bankrupting the farmer.

Ever hear of crop rotation? Legumes? Low til agriculture?

Or how about the increase in atmospheric CO2 enhancing vegetation production?

Re: The Atlantic spouts heresy...

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:08 pm
by Schneibster
What's the difference between "genetic modification" and breeding?

Breeding is slower.

Period.

Re: The Atlantic spouts heresy...

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:27 pm
by GIThruster
choff wrote:The big critique I hear about GMO is that they're trying to monopolize the seeds, if the wind blows theirs over to the non GMO farm they sue the non GMO farmer.
That charge has been around for as long as GMO corn but it has no merit. The suits relate to farmers whom signed a contract that they would not keep and replant their own seed, but rather purchase new seed from monsanto each season. It is actually the practice of farmers to purchase new seed for each planting so no trouble, and the GMO corn has 40% higher harvests so farmers can afford to pay more for it and still make more money.

The problem comes when farmers want to avoid paying for the seed and save it. This is what is in violation of their contracts and why monsanto has won several of these lawsuits. This is not evil empire stuff. If you expect anyone to spend hundreds of millions of dollars in testing GMO's then companies need to be able to recover their investment and they cannot while being stollen from.

This is all a red herring so far as GMO issues is concerned. The real issue is that the FDA is in bed with Monsanto and does not require adequate testing of GMO's. The problem is really with FDA, however. It starts and ends with the complete lack of independent analysis. That's why most of Europe is not using Monsanto's GMO's--they have not been properly tested to show they are safe.