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New Poll: 52 Favor 45 Against - My Usual Topic

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:34 pm
by MSimon
Ladajo keeps telling me that my stupidity of a society that does not punish pot smokers per se is not going to happen. Well maybe not. But that will just prove that the will of the people no longer matters.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la ... 3952.story

By 52% to 45%, adult Americans back legalization, according to the survey released Thursday by the Pew Research Center. The finding marks the first time in more than four decades of Pew's polling that a majority has taken that position. As recently as a decade ago, only about one-third of American adults backed making marijuana legal.

Two big shifts in opinion go along with the support for legalization and likely contribute to it. Most Americans no longer see marijuana as a "gateway" to more dangerous drugs, and most no longer see its use as immoral. As recently as 2006, half of respondents said in a Pew survey that marijuana use was “morally wrong.” Now, only one-third do, while half say that marijuana usage is “not a moral issue.”

By an overwhelming margin, 72% to 23%, respondents said the federal government’s efforts against marijuana “cost more than they are worth.”

<snip>

The poll suggests a shift in federal law may be slow. A notable political split exists on the issue, with conservative Republicans heavily against legalization, while majorities of Democrats, independents and liberal and moderate Republicans back it. Conservatives have strong sway among Republicans in the House.

But on two issues, opinion is more uniform: the belief that current enforcement efforts are not worth the cost, and acceptance of the idea that marijuana has legitimate medical uses. By 77% to 16%, poll respondents said they agree on that, with support for medical marijuana cutting across partisan and generation lines.

Support for legalization is strikingly uniform among states, with the percentage virtually the same in the states that have decriminalized, legalized or allowed medical use and in the 26 where marijuana remains fully illegal. There is little variation among various regions of the country either -- a sharp contrast with other cultural issues, on which coastal states tend to be more liberal and the South more conservative.

That finding contradicts the strategy that supporters of marijuana legalization have followed over the past decade, in which they have pushed first to allow medical marijuana in the belief that states that have taken that step would more likely back full legalization. The new data suggest either that such careful strategizing was unnecessary or that a broader cultural shift in favor of full legalization has made it obsolete.

The percentage of people who say they have used marijuana in the last year (about one in 10) or at any point in their lives (about half) is virtually identical in states that have legalized some marijuana use and those that have not, suggesting that more liberal laws have simply made usage more visible, not increased it, as some have feared.

The main divisions on marijuana legalization are those of age: Younger Americans back legalization more than their elders, although the poll shows legalization gaining support among all generations.

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If medical interests you, go here: http://www.nih.gov/ and enter - endocannabinoid - in the search box.

And http://rockford-for-safe-access.blogspo ... e-pot.html

Re: New Poll: 52 Favor 45 Against - My Usual Topic

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:46 am
by paperburn1
MSimon wrote:Two big shifts in opinion go along with the support for legalization and likely contribute to it. Most Americans no longer see marijuana as a "gateway" to more dangerous drugs, and most no longer see its use as immoral. As recently as 2006, half of respondents said in a Pew survey that marijuana use was “morally wrong.” Now, only one-third do, while half say that marijuana usage is “not a moral issue.”

[/url]
There always has been an “opiate for the masses” In Rome it was bread and circus ,with heroin alcohol, and tobacco being the most recent contributors to the list. Maybe its just now time for the rise and fall of marijuana. After all how many stoners do you find fighting the government? darn few and if made legal they most would be happy to sit in moms and dads basement playing video games and working at sustenance levels. That is the path I see most smokers take. Very few users find their way into higher paid jobs and are leaders in world change. Those that do are the exception to the rule in my experience.

Re: New Poll: 52 Favor 45 Against - My Usual Topic

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:59 am
by MSimon
paperburn1 wrote:
MSimon wrote:Two big shifts in opinion go along with the support for legalization and likely contribute to it. Most Americans no longer see marijuana as a "gateway" to more dangerous drugs, and most no longer see its use as immoral. As recently as 2006, half of respondents said in a Pew survey that marijuana use was “morally wrong.” Now, only one-third do, while half say that marijuana usage is “not a moral issue.”

[/url]
There always has been an “opiate for the masses” In Rome it was bread and circus ,with heroin alcohol, and tobacco being the most recent contributors to the list. Maybe its just now time for the rise and fall of marijuana. After all how many stoners do you find fighting the government? darn few and if made legal they most would be happy to sit in moms and dads basement playing video games and working at sustenance levels. That is the path I see most smokers take. Very few users find their way into higher paid jobs and are leaders in world change. Those that do are the exception to the rule in my experience.
paperburn1,

You have no idea how many are in higher paid jobs because it is illegal. I worked at a very large aerospace company. I would estimate about 1/2 the engineers were users. And the better the engineering the more likely they were to be users.

Look at what Steve Jobs said about LSD. http://www.networkworld.com/community/b ... 975-arrest

Not too many hippies in this crew:
Image
And Gates has the stoner look all the way.

As he does here with Paul Allen:
Image

My take is that if you have ambition pot amplifies it. And if you want to be a drone it amplifies that.

The fear of drugs is way overblown. And that is a bigger form of control than the drugs themselves. After all the fear empowers government. What do the drugs do? Make some people couch potatoes. Which is the bigger threat?

Re: New Poll: 52 Favor 45 Against - My Usual Topic

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:22 am
by MSimon
Abstract The use of pre-employment and random drug testing by companies in the United States has grown rapidly during the past decade. This paper provides statistical evidence about the economic effects of drug testing programs by applying a production function model to a test sample of 63 firms within the computer and communications equipment industries in the US economy. The sample of firms comes from several SIC code areas that comprise a portion of the "high tech" industries in the economy. An economic production function model is specified and estimated for a test industry using cross-sectional firm-level data on the presence and type of drug testing programs, combined with financial data on companies available through COMPUSTAT. The empirical results suggest that drug testing programs do not succeed in improving productivity. Surprisingly, companies adopting drug testing programs are found to exhibit lower levels of productivity than their counterparts that do not.

http://www.drugwar.com/news11.shtm

Drug Testing and Labor Productivity

By Edward Shepard* and Thomas Clifton**.
Le Moyne College Institute of Industrial Relations
Research Paper Number 18, September 1998:1-30.

========

The link was the first place with the paper.

I got to it by looking up:
And, in January's Working USA magazine, two researchers with the Le Moyne College Institute of Industrial Relations surveyed 63 Silicon Valley companies and found that productivity was 29 percent lower in firms with pre-employment and random testing.

http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/ ... 897708.php

Re: New Poll: 52 Favor 45 Against - My Usual Topic

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:33 am
by MSimon
Back at the start of the Computer Revolution I belonged to CACHE. The Chicago Area Computer Hobbyist Exchange. Computer geeks all the way. Randy Suess and Ward Christianson were members. So was I. Lots of stoners in that club as far as I could tell.

A little history of the World's First BBS which was designed by Ward and Randy. I spent a few days with them while they were in the design phase working out hardware problems.

http://www.ecnmag.com/blogs/2012/04/resource-one

Re: New Poll: 52 Favor 45 Against - My Usual Topic

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:36 am
by paperburn1
In your opinion, It seems to me your still stuck in 1980 when the drug craze was at a high(no pun intended) in the tech industry and the military.
Most people I know in the tech end experienced /used then gave it up as counterproductive. Those that still use think they have a big secret but we know better. Most that still use claim a higher level of productivity but their work usually does not bear this out. Why don’t They get fired? Because they do contribute a useful level of work, no less than the Monday hung over binge drinker, 3 martin lunches, office a$$hole or the office cooler junkie. But like all the above when the level of work does not meet minimum standards we shuffle them out the door. Good tech people are at a premium so right now we tolerate a lot more than If there was a surplus of savvy workers. Usually when they get brazen enough to do their vice at work or during lunch, their gone. Same with the others I mention, when their problem exceeds their abilities. This seems to be the general consensus among most employers I know and work with, good employee but could be better it they did not do (insert vice here.) It is hard nowadays to find reliable people to preform at the level needed.

Re: New Poll: 52 Favor 45 Against - My Usual Topic

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:44 am
by paperburn1
Why do you think the word goes out about random drug test a few day before it happens? so you can get you B 12 and gold seal to flush before the test, were not fools at the managment level, just realists

Re: New Poll: 52 Favor 45 Against - My Usual Topic

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:58 am
by paperburn1
MSimon wrote:Back at the start of the Computer Revolution I belonged to CACHE. The Chicago Area Computer Hobbyist Exchange. Computer geeks all the way. Randy Suess and Ward Christianson were members. So was I. Lots of stoners in that club as far as I could tell.


http://www.ecnmag.com/blogs/2012/04/resource-one
I used to be a fidonet node back in the 90s.

Re: New Poll: 52 Favor 45 Against - My Usual Topic

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:58 am
by MSimon
paperburn1 wrote:Why do you think the word goes out about random drug test a few day before it happens? so you can get you B 12 and gold seal to flush before the test, were not fools at the managment level, just realists
Well there you have it. You are wasting your time for show. And it is costing you. Why not just go by productivity in the first place?

BTW I'm not going by the 80s. My last spin with the aerospace company ended in 2000. And what I saw in my first spin there in '86 hadn't changed much in the intervening years.

I do agree with your rule though: let talent do what it wants as long as it produces. Three martini lunches or a joint after lunch - performance is all that counts.

The company I work for has never even met me in person. All my business with them has been by e-mail with the very occasional phone call. What do they want from me? Can I meet my deadlines? Can I drive traffic? Do the technical pieces I do make technical sense? As long as I can do that it doesn't matter if I drink myself under the table every day or smoke myself into some kind of purple haze.

http://www.ecnmag.com/blogs/2013/04/top ... osts-march

My editor tells me that three of the top ten is a pretty big deal. Even if they are near the bottom of the list. And they like the fact that I'm recruiting talent. Note Tom Ligon on the list. I brought him in.

It is all about value. And I like that. A lot. Because I really enjoy being valuable even more than I enjoy getting paid.

There are a LOT of people profiteering from drug prohibition. And they are doing it at your expense. Latest surveys show that about 75% of Americans think they are not getting their moneys worth. But men with guns force them to pay anyway. What is surprising is not how many object. It is how few. With 75% saying no worth and only 10% using I'd say the gap was not caused by the drugs. Which leads me to ask - why don't you object - being anti-government and all. Are you afraid GIT will start calling you a doper? That Ladajo will start expressing his disdain? It doesn't deter me.

If only more people showed some courage on the subject. In any case I will until the rest of you "resisters" catch on.

Re: New Poll: 52 Favor 45 Against - My Usual Topic

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:03 am
by MSimon
paperburn1 wrote:
MSimon wrote:Back at the start of the Computer Revolution I belonged to CACHE. The Chicago Area Computer Hobbyist Exchange. Computer geeks all the way. Randy Suess and Ward Christianson were members. So was I. Lots of stoners in that club as far as I could tell.

http://www.ecnmag.com/blogs/2012/04/resource-one
I used to be a fidonet node back in the 90s.
Way cool. So many kids these days have no concept of the history.

Re: New Poll: 52 Favor 45 Against - My Usual Topic

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:34 pm
by 303
half the it industry is coked up to the eyeballs on most major projects, ofc most of management are wankers anyway and that shit definitely enhances that!!

Re: New Poll: 52 Favor 45 Against - My Usual Topic

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:36 pm
by 303
btw if talk of bbs brought nostalgic tear to your eyes, check this out (great for stoner too!)

http://scoutshonour.com/digital/

Re: New Poll: 52 Favor 45 Against - My Usual Topic

Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:08 am
by MSimon
paperburn,

My conversation with you on the subject is reminiscent of the conversation I had with the HR guy when I had trouble peeing in the bottle. Like you he agreed with most of what I said.

Funny enough they were so afraid of an ADA lawsuit that they contracted me for a project when the "job" fell through. And I did most of my work from my shop. Too funny eh?

303 - I have a habit of not opening strange exes. Thanks anyway.

BTW - you are correct about most managers. Now square that for HR. Also the company is no longer in business in my area. They had a campus of acres that was already half empty when I was called in. The engineer who I was replacing - college boy - was an idiot. He couldn't figure out loop bandwidth for a control loop based on Nyquist even. Nor could he design a control function (it had flat spots). So control was sluggish and twitchy. But they had to let me go because I couldn't pee in a bottle on command. Novel job criteria. Note: about 3% of Americans have the peeing on command problem.

http://www.paruresis.org/about_avoidant_paruresis.htm

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paruresis

Mine showed up at age 5. When the doctor wanted a sample I had to take the cup home.

But those were simpler days. Before drug hysteria took over America.

Re: New Poll: 52 Favor 45 Against - My Usual Topic

Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:28 am
by MSimon
303 wrote:btw if talk of bbs brought nostalgic tear to your eyes, check this out (great for stoner too!)

http://scoutshonour.com/digital/
Well I'm no stoner. But as you can tell I'm well versed in the subject. Based on this http://thesilvertour.org/ I'm thinking of taking it up. Just for old age aches and pains. If it ever becomes legal in Illinois.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/BillSta ... D=85&GA=98

Or if this passes:

http://illinoisnorml.org/ilnorml/hb-233 ... gislation/

My State Senator Dave Syverson favors medical marijuana but feels a better approach is to just decriminalize small amounts. Not bad for a Republican.

Re: New Poll: 52 Favor 45 Against - My Usual Topic

Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:39 am
by paperburn1
Just to be clear, its not approval of usage, I would prefer and I encourage no drugs or drink. IMHO its just a bad idea all around.