Talk-Polywell.org

Why even Amsterdam doesn’t want legal brothels
The Dutch experiment in legalised prostitution has been a disaster

Do you remember the rather brilliant comedy sketch featuring Harry Enfield and Paul Whitehouse in which they played laid-back police officers in Amsterdam, bragging that they no longer have to deal with the crime of murder in the Netherlands since the Dutch legalised it? Don’t laugh too hard. In 2000 the Dutch government decided to make it even easier for pimps, traffickers and punters by legalising the already massive and highly visible brothel trade. Their logic was as simple as it was deceptive: to make things safer for everyone. Make it a job like any other. Once the women were liberated from the underworld, the crooks, drug dealers and people traffickers would drift away.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/883 ... -for-sale/




The pity is, the people who should really read this, and take this lesson to heart, will studiously ignore it.

Yeah, they'll all be better off in prison.

kcdodd wrote:Yeah, they'll all be better off in prison.

Two points.

1. You are offering a non sequitur.

2. Putting people in prison is not for THEIR benefit, it is for the benefit of the people who remain outside.

Putting people in prison is not for THEIR benefit, it is for the benefit of the people who remain outside

A thought lost on many these days...

ladajo wrote:

Putting people in prison is not for THEIR benefit, it is for the benefit of the people who remain outside

A thought lost on many these days...

Yeah because we all benefit from petty criminals going into prison and coming out hardened thugs.

ScottL wrote:Yeah because we all benefit from petty criminals going into prison and coming out hardened thugs.

That's a complaint against the nature of the current prison system, not against incarcerating petty criminals. We have created an environment where criminals can conspire together and train each other in how to do crime. It will take a great deal of effort to fix what is surely a broken system. Solitary confinement is one obvious answer, but there are so many that consider this cruel and unusual, that we have the broken system we have.

GIThruster wrote:

ScottL wrote:Yeah because we all benefit from petty criminals going into prison and coming out hardened thugs.

That's a complaint against the nature of the current prison system, not against incarcerating petty criminals. We have created an environment where criminals can conspire together and train each other in how to do crime. It will take a great deal of effort to fix what is surely a broken system. Solitary confinement is one obvious answer, but there are so many that consider this cruel and unusual, that we have the broken system we have.

Incarceration does not work until you fix this system, but that wasn't taken into consideration within the previous posts. Simply "locking them up" isn't the answer and in my opinion prisons should be reserved for the most heinous crimes.

ScottL wrote:

ladajo wrote:

Putting people in prison is not for THEIR benefit, it is for the benefit of the people who remain outside

A thought lost on many these days...

Yeah because we all benefit from petty criminals going into prison and coming out hardened thugs.

Another non sequitur, and on multiple levels.

ScottL wrote:

GIThruster wrote:

ScottL wrote:Yeah because we all benefit from petty criminals going into prison and coming out hardened thugs.

That's a complaint against the nature of the current prison system, not against incarcerating petty criminals. We have created an environment where criminals can conspire together and train each other in how to do crime. It will take a great deal of effort to fix what is surely a broken system. Solitary confinement is one obvious answer, but there are so many that consider this cruel and unusual, that we have the broken system we have.

Incarceration does not work until you fix this system,

That depends on what you mean by the word "work". Incarceration does work for various purposes. Among them, I'm certain it does reduce crime. Separating criminally minded people from the opportunity to commit crime, must absolutely reduces crime. Now whether or not the overall system is "fair" is another matter. I see a lot of unfairness in it.

ScottL wrote: but that wasn't taken into consideration within the previous posts. Simply "locking them up" isn't the answer and in my opinion prisons should be reserved for the most heinous crimes.

I agree. I would like to see prisons functioning more as rehabilitational institutions, and less as confinement cages. Unfortunately some people cannot be rehabilitated. It is best that we understand this. Still, there might be better methods than just locking them up.

Not too far away from Amsterdam, in Belgium there was a criminal named Dutreau doing time for kidnapping 4 women, the prison warden considered him the most dangerous psychopath he'd ever seen. So of course they gave him early parole with a nice government pension for the psychological harm of being in captivity. Very soon after he turned up owning 6 houses (with no apparent means of financing), all with secret dungeons, young girls began disappearing.

ScottL wrote:

ladajo wrote:

Putting people in prison is not for THEIR benefit, it is for the benefit of the people who remain outside

A thought lost on many these days...

Yeah because we all benefit from petty criminals going into prison and coming out hardened thugs.

Dude.
People should be removed from greater society once they have demonstrated that they can not be trusted not to do others harm. If in the course of the removal they get rehabilitated, that is not for their benefit, it is for society's. If they prove to be un-rehabilitatible, then so be it, they can stay out of society. The bigger question, is do you just isolate them and accept the incurred cost, or do you euthanize them and move on? I personally do not think there is a clear answer to this. I would say it depends. If someone actively seeks to harm society and those that live in it, and do so with a purpose and choice, with no remorse or desire to stop, then euthanizing them is probably the best choice. Clean out the gene pool so to speak. For the others, that show potential or hope, maybe we can work with them, as part of a mutual contract for life. That said, I would also offer that some crimes are just so heinous, that there is no turning back, they need to go away quickly and permanently.
I also agree that prisons should not be operated in a way to promote criminal growth. And, as pointed out, that is a seperate discussion.

I agree. I would like to see prisons functioning more as rehabilitational institutions, and less as confinement cages. Unfortunately some people cannot be rehabilitated. It is best that we understand this. Still, there might be better methods than just locking them up.

For once....we agree, completely. Must be the end of days or something.

Used to be that prison inmates would work, mostly assorted unskilled labor, helping to pay for their keep. Then some moron decided that was cruel. Probably the same mentality that thinks requiring an able bodied person to work for a welfare check is cruel.

choff wrote:Not too far away from Amsterdam, in Belgium there was a criminal named Dutreau doing time for kidnapping 4 women, the prison warden considered him the most dangerous psychopath he'd ever seen. So of course they gave him early parole with a nice government pension for the psychological harm of being in captivity. Very soon after he turned up owning 6 houses (with no apparent means of financing), all with secret dungeons, young girls began disappearing.

Are you possibly talking about this guy?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Dutroux

ScottL wrote:

I agree. I would like to see prisons functioning more as rehabilitational institutions, and less as confinement cages. Unfortunately some people cannot be rehabilitated. It is best that we understand this. Still, there might be better methods than just locking them up.

For once....we agree, completely. Must be the end of days or something.

I would rather characterize it as you gaining wisdom.