Talk-Polywell.org

Great footage taken almost immediately after the Chernobyl accident. All of the men in this footage are unimaginable heroes and walking dead placed there by a system that did not care and did not act responsibly or have the sense to handle dangerous technologies. This is Progressivism's logical end, with incompetent officials allowed to escape the consequences of their actions because of their positions in the party and no feedback mechanism when dealing with complicated technologies. This pattern can be seen all throughout the former Soviet Union
http://maggiesfarm.anotherdotcom.com/ar ... n-Was.html

I had a Subaru Legacy with the full VDC system. Brilliant idea, but the steering angle sensor became contaminated, which switched off the ABS, which meant I couldn't MoT the car anymore.

I used to quite like looking through 'General' for a chat but I don't bother now, and the reason is that you have to plough into topics you just didn't really want to all because of an un-descriptive title.

So this thread is about 'Legacy' and I'm talking about the one I used to own, therefore it is 'on-topic'. A topic title like "Chernobyl; Accountability?" would've done it, but if you want to talk about my Subaru, then I'm game.

chrismb wrote:I used to quite like looking through 'General' for a chat but I don't bother now, and the reason is that you have to plough into topics you just didn't really want to all because of an un-descriptive title.

Yes. Few physics results on-topic in more than a year, and this place has become an echo chamber. I am unfortunately familiar with the process.

chrismb wrote:I had a Subaru Legacy with the full VDC system. Brilliant idea, but the steering angle sensor became contaminated, which switched off the ABS, which meant I couldn't MoT the car anymore.

I used to quite like looking through 'General' for a chat but I don't bother now, and the reason is that you have to plough into topics you just didn't really want to all because of an un-descriptive title.

So this thread is about 'Legacy' and I'm talking about the one I used to own, therefore it is 'on-topic'. A topic title like "Chernobyl; Accountability?" would've done it, but if you want to talk about my Subaru, then I'm game.

Did you actually look at the film footage I linked to. If you haven't maybe you should and then you might want to edit your comments.

Jccarlton wrote:Did you actually look at the film footage I linked to. If you haven't maybe you should and then you might want to edit your comments.

Nope, because it didn't look like the title of a Subaru video.

chrismb wrote:

Jccarlton wrote:Did you actually look at the film footage I linked to. If you haven't maybe you should and then you might want to edit your comments.

Nope, because it didn't look like the title of a Subaru video.

So for the sake of a cheap shot at me you're perfectly willing to cut off the nose to spite your face and demonstrate to entire world just how small and petty you are. Some people look like idiots, but it takes true genius to open their mouths and prove it.

Jccarlton wrote:

chrismb wrote:

Jccarlton wrote:Did you actually look at the film footage I linked to. If you haven't maybe you should and then you might want to edit your comments.

Nope, because it didn't look like the title of a Subaru video.

So for the sake of a cheap shot at me you're perfectly willing to cut off the nose to spite your face and demonstrate to entire world just how small and petty you are. Some people look like idiots, but it takes true genius to open their mouths and prove it.

Cheap shots are rather common amongst this group (Talk Polywellers) of supposedly educated and reasonable people.


I watched the video. There was no sound, and the only shot of the reactor that I saw wasn't very clear. Glad you posted it though.

Jccarlton wrote:So for the sake of a cheap shot at me you're perfectly willing to cut off the nose to spite your face and demonstrate to entire world just how small and petty you are. Some people look like idiots, but it takes true genius to open their mouths and prove it.

Self-aggrandisement won't get you very far....

The reality is that you are taking a terrible event and turning it into left-right politico-bullshit. Your statement "This is Progressivism's logical end, with incompetent officials allowed to escape the consequences of their actions" could have been equally re-written with some other event in mind, (Deepwater horizon?) with 'capitalism' in place of 'progressivism'.

You are blustering a slanging match against Soviets just because that is your political bent, and Чорнобиль is not germane to your argument.

I tell you that Russians don't want bullshitters pontificating and having bleeding hearts over how bad Russian's get it. They know all too well how they've been screwed over for decades. It was the West that dumped central Europe into the hands of the Soviets, and most of that part of the world had little complaint with the 'German' war - that was over and done with in a few years - but the decades of wretched hell under the Soviets than many suffered was a legacy the West shunted on them, and those that recall those times and got a shit end of the deal don't forgive us for that at all.

But, there again, unlike political whingers, they are just getting on with it and still do deals and trade with the West in dollars quite happily. Pragmatism is the Russian's way of living; keep an eye on the State apparatus whilst you get on with living whatever life you can manage. The West help orchestrate that for them.

So don't give me your load of nonsense about a country you've probably never even been to. You probably don't even know where the border between Europe and Russia is.

By a strange co-incidence, I ended up selling my Subaru to a Latvian who exported Subarus for dismantling in Russia. My car was in a container on its way there the very next day. Nice chap to do business with, paid good money up-front - something I wish I could rely on when doing business in the West these days.... oh how times change under a capitalist system.

chrismb wrote:

Jccarlton wrote:So for the sake of a cheap shot at me you're perfectly willing to cut off the nose to spite your face and demonstrate to entire world just how small and petty you are. Some people look like idiots, but it takes true genius to open their mouths and prove it.

Self-aggrandisement won't get you very far....

The reality is that you are taking a terrible event and turning it into left-right politico-bullshit. Your statement "This is Progressivism's logical end, with incompetent officials allowed to escape the consequences of their actions" could have been equally re-written with some other event in mind, (Deepwater horizon?) with 'capitalism' in place of 'progressivism'.

Well, the Deepwater horizon incident killed 13 and injured 17. It was also caused by BP who were major contributors to Barack Obama, and the most repeat regulation violating Oil company in the business, while the regulators were busy watching pRon on Government computers.


The Chernobyl deaths are estimated (according to this UK paper) to "range from 4,000 to half a million."

The Waters of the Gulf were polluted for a bit, but have pretty much recovered within a few months. How long is that Chernobyl contamination going to last?

So, yeah, okay, I'll take it. Deep Water Horizon represents a disaster caused by Capitalism, and Chernobyl represents a disaster caused by Communism. (Among MANY others.)

chrismb wrote: You are blustering a slanging match against Soviets just because that is your political bent, and Чорнобиль is not germane to your argument.

That is one way to describe it. Reality is another. That's really the crux of the whole discussion. What you regard as political bluster happens to be a reflection of reality, not an attempt to warp reality to fit a narrative. Chernobyl is just another example of the same phenomena that we are trying to get people to see. Socialism is Bad. Crony Capitalism (as in BP and General Electric) is also bad.

chrismb wrote: By a strange co-incidence, I ended up selling my Subaru to a Latvian who exported Subarus for dismantling in Russia. My car was in a container on its way there the very next day. Nice chap to do business with, paid good money up-front - something I wish I could rely on when doing business in the West these days.... oh how times change under a capitalist system.

It's that secularism introduced into the culture by the socialists for the last 100 years. If right and wrong have no meaning, who's to say it's wrong to cheat people when doing a deal?

chrismb wrote:

Jccarlton wrote:So for the sake of a cheap shot at me you're perfectly willing to cut off the nose to spite your face and demonstrate to entire world just how small and petty you are. Some people look like idiots, but it takes true genius to open their mouths and prove it.

Self-aggrandisement won't get you very far....

The reality is that you are taking a terrible event and turning it into left-right politico-bullshit. Your statement "This is Progressivism's logical end, with incompetent officials allowed to escape the consequences of their actions" could have been equally re-written with some other event in mind, (Deepwater horizon?) with 'capitalism' in place of 'progressivism'.

You are blustering a slanging match against Soviets just because that is your political bent, and Чорнобиль is not germane to your argument.

I tell you that Russians don't want bullshitters pontificating and having bleeding hearts over how bad Russian's get it. They know all too well how they've been screwed over for decades. It was the West that dumped central Europe into the hands of the Soviets, and most of that part of the world had little complaint with the 'German' war - that was over and done with in a few years - but the decades of wretched hell under the Soviets than many suffered was a legacy the West shunted on them, and those that recall those times and got a shit end of the deal don't forgive us for that at all.

But, there again, unlike political whingers, they are just getting on with it and still do deals and trade with the West in dollars quite happily. Pragmatism is the Russian's way of living; keep an eye on the State apparatus whilst you get on with living whatever life you can manage. The West help orchestrate that for them.

So don't give me your load of nonsense about a country you've probably never even been to. You probably don't even know where the border between Europe and Russia is.

By a strange co-incidence, I ended up selling my Subaru to a Latvian who exported Subarus for dismantling in Russia. My car was in a container on its way there the very next day. Nice chap to do business with, paid good money up-front - something I wish I could rely on when doing business in the West these days.... oh how times change under a capitalist system.

Funny thing, but isn't that exactly what I was talking about. Lenin and crew soaked up Progressive thought and Marxism in exile in Swiss and Italian along with Mussolini until the German General staff hid Lenin and his crew of sociopaths in a train and shipped them off to St Petersburg to fomet revolution and overthrow the new Democratic Gov't of Russia so that the Bolshies would end the war on the Eastern front and the krauts could continue to fight on the Western front which was in danger of collapse without reinforcements. I thought that everybody knew that. As for pontificating, you might want to talk to people from the soviet states about the wonders of true Socialism. You will have to wait a bit for the cursing to stop in my experience.
In the case of the Chernobyl accident, look up the accident report, what they were doing that caused the accident and why the techs did not try to control things better. Then look at the pathologies of soviet Russia and why this sort of thing happened over and over when highly technical realities conflicted with incompetence put in power by party position and patronage.
The reality is that your attitude here is that of a tiny little discusting troll. In order to take a cheap shot at me you demeaned men who are worthy in the end of true honor. The liquidators of Chernobyl died for all of us, in the end. They were true heroes doing an impossible job that meant certain death. I honestly suspect that they knew that they were going to their deaths and went anyway. You cannot watch the video and no be moved by the heroism. I may hate the system that required that heroism but I have worn the badge and understand that sometimes risks have to be taken. Obviously you are too small to ever understand. That in the end is your loss.

Jccarlton wrote:In order to take a cheap shot at me you demeaned men who are worthy in the end of true honor.

I consider it is the absolute inverse, and a failure of your to understand the robust, proud, hard-living bunch of down-trodden souls that we are talking about here.

As I said, they don't want your bitching over socialism this or capitalism that. They've suffered it, and you haven't. They'd say "so, you're making us martyrs and heros, for your political motives?"

Do you really think the people you are talking about are going to think well of your attempt to layer further and further politics on top of an already well-understood outcome, just for YOU to spout YOUR politico-clap-trap?

Do you really think they'd see any difference between the way you're swinging your opinions around and the way their political leaders did, that lead them to the country and the times they lived through!? Are you sick, or something?

chrismb wrote:

Jccarlton wrote:In order to take a cheap shot at me you demeaned men who are worthy in the end of true honor.

I consider it is the absolute inverse, and a failure of your to understand the robust, proud, hard-living bunch of down-trodden souls that we are talking about here.

As I said, they don't want your bitching over socialism this or capitalism that. They've suffered it, and you haven't. They'd say "so, you're making us martyrs and heros, for your political motives?"

Do you really think the people you are talking about are going to think well of your attempt to layer further and further politics on top of an already well-understood outcome, just for YOU to spout YOUR politico-clap-trap?

Do you really think they'd see any difference between the way you're swinging your opinions around and the way their political leaders did, that lead them to the country and the times they lived through!? Are you sick, or something?

You know I have spent far too much actually reading about the soviet System back in the day it was a going concern, I didn't really begin to understand it until I actually met some of the people who actually lived the system. I've actually come to hate socialism even more because of those people. I work next to one of those downtrodden souls right now. I can't tell you how very pleased with himself because he finally got his American citizenship. I also can only say that he see the same trends that I do and has the same fears.
Frankly as far as I can tell from long long conversations, they tend to agree with me about the Soviet System. It's different from thinking in the abstract like you do and facing the real monster. I take my experiences not from some made up hypothetical or from what I have read, but from the mouths and writings of the people who lived through the horrible soviet state. I hate to say this but you have no clue as to what you are talking about.

Print this thread off in its entirety, and go ask this guy who works next to you to read it and make comment on your politicisation of this disaster, then.

After that, if he thinks it is wrong for me to want you to stop politicising a disaster for your own political purposes, then he can PM me. I'm not going to accept 2nd hand comments that have filtered through your overly-political view of the world as being a correct representation of the cultural response of Ukrainians and Russians to such matters.

I dare say that you may find some that agree with you, but it is my judgment that you have fully misjudged the culture your are trying to stand up for on your soap box against the terrible tyrants you see.

There's nothing wrong with discussing the threats people face by those who seek to drive us towards one political ideology or another. That's not the point here.

The points are;

A) Disasters happen due to incompetence, not due to political ideology. Politicians are generally the incompetents, of ANY persuasion. You are taking the stance of a politician, ergo you are likely to be incompetent, ergo you are likely to cause disasters.

B) I am quite sure that any Ukrainian knows that fully, instinctively and without any desire whatsoever for a bleeding heart American to pour pitying prose on their experiences.

C) I thought this topic was about Subaru Legacies. You made a VERY incompetent choice of subject line, because it got me involved in it. Bad news for whatever point you were trying to make, bad news for me because you have drawn on my nature of objecting to ALL politics, and bad news because you have caused a mini-train-wreck of yet another thread. So this thread itself is a demonstration that the incompetence of those politically motivated causes disasters.

This is all dumb-nuts politics. We all know the failures of Soviet socialism, and maybe even you are right to link that particular event to politics, but you've totally failed to grasp that politics like yours is why socialism gained its footing. It's POLITICS [period] that's the problem, and my point is that Russians know this to be so. Your patronising defence of them against their political leaders is a bit thick.

Ah. Yes. Chernobyl was a technical disaster. And politics had nothing to do with the preconditions that set the disaster in train. Or the lack of a containment building.

"Deep Water Horizon represents a disaster caused by Facism."

Fixed that for you. Crony Capitalism is facism before it starts killing people. Of course with Obamacare it's about to start killing people.