Giffords And The paranoid Vision of The left

Jccarlton · Post by **Jccarlton** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:22 pm

Interesting piece from Henninger from the WSJ;
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... rialPage_h
The Hofsteader essay henninger was talking about:
http://karws.gso.uri.edu/jfk/conspiracy ... style.html
The interesting thing to me is that the kind of paranoia and arrogance that we see now existed then.

AcesHigh · Post by **AcesHigh** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:34 pm

come on, you cant get more paranoid then the tea party!

both the left and the right are paranoid right now in the US. Deal with it.

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:53 pm

AcesHigh wrote:come on, you cant get more paranoid then the tea party!

Are they paranoid if their government really is out to get them?

UncleMatt · Post by **UncleMatt** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:24 pm

By the same token, most companies are "out to take our money", so should we also think of them in a paranoid way? What are they doing with "our money"??? Does it agree with my religion/politics/personal agenda? If not, time to FREAK OUT!

rolls eyes

If you think the government is somehow the ebil debil, you are simply off your nutter. The government is made up of the same people who work in the private sector, with all the subsequent good AND bad qualities. They aren't scaled aliens bent on domination.

kunkmiester · Post by **kunkmiester** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:06 pm

A large number of influential people in government have never had private sector jobs. Kennedy comes to mind as the easiest example, but I'm sure others will be listed.

If I don't like a company, I can choose to patronize a different one, or even start my own(to some extent), so your analogy is invalid--if I don't like the court system, I can't decide to move my business to another, and moving to another country doesn't work unless you can point to one like ours that isn't co-opted by liberals.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:44 pm

UncleMatt wrote:By the same token, most companies are "out to take our money", so should we also think of them in a paranoid way? What are they doing with "our money"??? Does it agree with my religion/politics/personal agenda? If not, time to FREAK OUT!

rolls eyes

If you think the government is somehow the ebil debil, you are simply off your nutter. The government is made up of the same people who work in the private sector, with all the subsequent good AND bad qualities. They aren't scaled aliens bent on domination.

I disagree. As a general rule, the government is filled with incompetence; People who would be fired in the private sector. In many cases, the only reason these people can have any sort of job is because government employees are often unaccountable to anyone, least of all taxpayers.

I have personally knowledge of numerous government employees doing really stupid stuff. (County, State, City and Federal.) I would name names and incidents, but I have no desire to be sued or otherwise harassed.

Now governments sometimes manage to find people who are competent, but often they find other jobs and leave. Incompetence seems to be the rule, not the exception. The best way to reduce incompetence in government is to make it smaller.

Ivy Matt · Post by **Ivy Matt** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:29 am

UncleMatt wrote:By the same token, most companies are "out to take our money", so should we also think of them in a paranoid way? What are they doing with "our money"??? Does it agree with my religion/politics/personal agenda? If not, time to FREAK OUT!

Or at least organize a boycott.

DeltaV · Post by **DeltaV** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:37 am

Diogenes wrote:The best way to reduce incompetence in government is to make it smaller.

Well said (written).

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:06 pm

UncleMatt wrote:By the same token, most companies are "out to take our money", so should we also think of them in a paranoid way?

Really??? Wow, if there is any company that is out to TAKE your money, call the police! And be more responsible in choosing the companies with which you do business!
Most companies with which I do business are out to EARN my money, and I am please to exchange it to them for the product or service I want.
The government has very few products or services I want but I am forced at gunpoint to provide money for the ones OTHERS want me to pay for.

Betruger · Post by **Betruger** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:14 pm

Pretty sure that was sarcasm.

UncleMatt · Post by **UncleMatt** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:16 pm

Diogenes wrote:
UncleMatt wrote:By the same token, most companies are "out to take our money", so should we also think of them in a paranoid way? What are they doing with "our money"??? Does it agree with my religion/politics/personal agenda? If not, time to FREAK OUT!

rolls eyes

If you think the government is somehow the ebil debil, you are simply off your nutter. The government is made up of the same people who work in the private sector, with all the subsequent good AND bad qualities. They aren't scaled aliens bent on domination.

I disagree. As a general rule, the government is filled with incompetence; People who would be fired in the private sector. In many cases, the only reason these people can have any sort of job is because government employees are often unaccountable to anyone, least of all taxpayers.

I have personally knowledge of numerous government employees doing really stupid stuff. (County, State, City and Federal.) I would name names and incidents, but I have no desire to be sued or otherwise harassed.

Now governments sometimes manage to find people who are competent, but often they find other jobs and leave. Incompetence seems to be the rule, not the exception. The best way to reduce incompetence in government is to make it smaller.

Your attempts to make out government employees as if they were somehow a different species is entertaining, but a TOTAL fail. Government employees are motivated by the PROFIT MOTIVE, just like people in the private sector. They buy the same products, live the same lives as anyone in the private sector.

The CONSTANT attempts to paint people you may disagree with as somehow "different" or "more flawed" than everyone else is simply a good way to lose an argument based on FACTS, not the politics you choose to make your RELIGION.

UncleMatt · Post by **UncleMatt** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:48 pm

It would be refreshing if all the people who want to villify government would apply their "standards" to all the stupidity and waste that goes on in private companies. We ALL pay higher prices as a result, which takes money out of my pocket just like higher taxes do. True or false? The money is just as gone with one as it is the other...

So why the single minded focus one ONE side of the equation, but not BOTH sides?

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:08 pm

UncleMatt wrote:If you think the government is somehow the ebil debil, you are simply off your nutter. The government is made up of the same people who work in the private sector, with all the subsequent good AND bad qualities. They aren't scaled aliens bent on domination.

Not always so.

If you can't do, teach.
If you can't teach, administrate.
If you can't administrate, bureaucratize?

kunkmiester · Post by **kunkmiester** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:23 pm

Can you give an example of waste in a private company that has managed to stay in business despite, and isn't a result of government interference--Most is enabled by corporate law, or mandated by regulation. A lot of waste in finance and human resources for example is mandated by government, and other issues are with bureaucracy, which is enabled by subsidies and exemptions from liability from corporate law. All of this would go away in a true free market.

This is on top of the fact that for the products and services offered by the private sector, I can choose the most efficient provider that suits me, whereas the government DEMANDS my money for their services, even when I don't need them. Private companies can't send a cop to arrest me if I don't patronize them, but if I don't pay my taxes, the gov will.

JLawson · Post by **JLawson** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:41 pm

UncleMatt wrote:It would be refreshing if all the people who want to villify government would apply their "standards" to all the stupidity and waste that goes on in private companies. We ALL pay higher prices as a result, which takes money out of my pocket just like higher taxes do. True or false? The money is just as gone with one as it is the other...

So why the single minded focus one ONE side of the equation, but not BOTH sides?

A company that isn't at least somewhat efficient in their business won't survive long-term (government bailouts notwithstanding). The competition will get more efficient, set lower prices, grab market share. Look at the computer industry - $200 today would buy the equivalent of a 1980's Cray. (An XBox 360 w/4 GB memory - a computer optimized as a gaming system with a video rendering system that could do in a half-second what a Cray would take weeks.)

But government has little to no incentive to be efficient, at least the way things are set up now. You get a budget, you've got to spend that budget or it'll be cut the next year. If you spend your budget, you get more the next year. You don't have to worry about putting out a quality 'product' or provide needed services efficiently, you've got a lock on the sector and there's no competition.

Then you've got the people involved. You advance by management - the more people you manage the more you earn. Pad the payroll, you get a bigger budget and advance up the GS schedule. You bloat, you float, so to speak...

And you never have to worry about running out of money. Someone else always paid the bills... at least, while the money was there.