Talk-Polywell.org

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/spa ... ory?page=1

This is why the US space programme is going nowhere: politics
Thank you Shelby and ATK! You guys are destroying the US human space programme. Well done porkers!

Another good reason Government involvement in just about anything is a bad idea. There's VERY few instances where Government is the best option available.

Well, all you have to do is go to the people employed by the programme and say "Excuse me, would you mind, awfully, if you could just not do any more work on this and go find something else to do. That way, the gov won't have to spend this money it doesn't need to."

If those workers don't see the sense in that and they insist on getting paid for work that is ultimately useless, then the accusation that they are playing politics and wasing US money will be equally true.

The clause that leads to this was there to protect workers interests. Either it is correct that protecting their interests is justified, or it isn't. That decision was made before the Congress made its own cock-up by not getting the budget in time. But it's all money back into the economy [anyway], as was the original intent, so what's the issue?

chrismb wrote: But it's all money back into the economy [anyway], as was the original intent, so what's the issue?

The government is not symbiotic (giving as good as it gets) it is parasitical (taking more than it gives for its own growth). I am not aware of ANY parasites that are desirable.

I think you missed my irony. The point is that if the original contracts were conceived on that basis, then there's little point political whinging later. I am not judging the merits or otherwise of it. It was politics that kicked off those contract arrangements, so it is redundant to raise politics as the issue when it turns sour.

chrismb wrote: political whinging

??? Must be a British thing. We have political wining (as in wining and dining) and political whining too. But I'm not sure what whinging is.

PS: Are you an iron?
PPS: Must be that dry British whit!

KitemanSA wrote:I'm not sure what whinging is.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whinging

[The dictionary confirms it is, indeed, a British thing; middle english "whingen", to moan. cf Harry Potter's home; "Little Whinging", which I guess you wouldn't've picked up on, if you've seen it.]

chrismb wrote:

KitemanSA wrote:I'm not sure what whinging is.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whinging

[The dictionary confirms it is, indeed, a British thing; middle english "whingen", to moan. cf Harry Potter's home; "Little Whinging", which I guess you wouldn't've picked up on, if you've seen it.]

"Little Whinging", nice pun, if you know the language!
My brain always tried to force that into "Little Whingding" for some reason.

KitemanSA wrote:

chrismb wrote: But it's all money back into the economy [anyway], as was the original intent, so what's the issue?

The government is not symbiotic (giving as good as it gets) it is parasitical (taking more than it gives for its own growth). I am not aware of ANY parasites that are desirable.

A generalization that has many exceptions.


A couple that come immediately to mind, is maggots and leaches. It all depends on the specific situation (medical in this instance). It also assumes that the society involved is homogenous. The Ares rocket certainly help the Solid rocket producer. Parasites that kill another pest can be very useful for us, though the pest probably doesn't appreciste it.

Finally there are many, many things that government involment helps. Guaranteed educational loans is one. And, remember, government cannot spend money without involving employees, contractors, etc. (Wallstreet and banking coruption may be an exception). You cannot separate them completely. Corruption,or inefficiencies are more management related than government. and, of course corruption is rampant in both the private and public sectors.

Dan Tibbets

mdeminico wrote:Another good reason Government involvement in just about anything is a bad idea. There's VERY few instances where Government is the best option available.

You cut and pasted this from one of my posts, didn't you?

D Tibbets wrote:

KitemanSA wrote: I am not aware of ANY parasites that are desirable.

A generalization that has many exceptions.

A couple that come immediately to mind, is maggots and leaches.

Maggots aren't parasites, they are carrion feeders. Leeches are parasites until they get turned into tools. Leeches as PARASITES are not desired. As tools, they are as desired as any other tool. Not a whole lot of folks want a hammer when they need a saw!

D Tibbets wrote:It all depends on the specific situation (medical in this instance). It also assumes that the society involved is homogenous. The Ares rocket certainly help the Solid rocket producer. Parasites that kill another pest can be very useful for us, though the pest probably doesn't appreciste it.

If you equate humans with "pests", then fine, this may be true. But it is not a proper purpose of government to treat one group of peaceful people as pests (act paracitically on them) while using their product to subsidize another.

D Tibbets wrote: Finally there are many, many things that government involment helps. Guaranteed educational loans is one.

Government has become so entwined with education that it is difficult to predict what whould happen if it were to disentangle itself. My opinion is that the AMOUNT of education that would go on would reduce but the QUALITY would improve so much as to make the situation, on the whole, better. One mechanism by which this might occur is a change away from inefficient, SUBSIDIZED methods of the past. But who knows!

D Tibbets wrote: Finally there are many, many things that government involment helps. Guaranteed educational loans is one.

An effect of the goverment loans and grants has been to raise the price of education. After all, it is the interest of the education providers to extract as much money as possible from the payers, right?

KitemanSA wrote:Government has become so entwined with education that it is difficult to predict what whould happen if it were to disentangle itself. My opinion is that the AMOUNT of education that would go on would reduce but the QUALITY would improve so much as to make the situation, on the whole, better. One mechanism by which this might occur is a change away from inefficient, SUBSIDIZED methods of the past. But who knows!

I agree to a point, but it is easy to predict what will happen if the US goverment reduced grant and loan money available. You have already done it in the quotation above.

The problem is that if education is expensive and there are no loans and grants for the people, you will end with a whole lot less educated people out there. Less well educated people means less know how and that means being less competitive on the international stage.
The high prices of education are a real problem in the US.
You have a few very well educated people and a lot of really badly educated people.

How many NASA engineers does it take to screw in a bolt?
This may sound like a joke, but it is dead serious:

http://www.transterrestrial.com/?p=31381

Skipjack wrote:The problem is that if education is expensive and there are no loans and grants for the people, you will end with a whole lot less educated people out there. Less well educated people means less know how and that means being less competitive on the international stage.

Personally, I believe that fewer BETTER educated people is better than more numerous "less educated" people, which is the situation we have now.