Talk-Polywell.org

Or at least some of them at reduced scale.
http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=6090

Rumor going around the 'Net is that they were destroyed.

hanelyp wrote:Or at least some of them at reduced scale.
http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=6090

Rumor going around the 'Net is that they were destroyed.

That rumor was going around before there was a net

And it's as false now as it was then. The blueprints etc etc etc etc etc were converted to microfiche and stored.

The preservation of such documentation was and is required by law.

It was the tooling and other hardware that was scrapped.

The complete plans to build a Saturn V moon rocket booster are yours for the asking... if you're an American citizen... and can fund the copying costs... and have a place to build it... and can recreate the tooling (not easy)... and can recreate the tooling expertise (even harder, how are you at cloning?)... you should get the idea by now

And your Saturn V would be obsolete and inefficient compared to systems built with current technology... and by the time you'd spent enough money to adapt the plans to current tech you would in essence be creating a new HLV from scratch...

A clean sheet of paper design would be faster and simpler.

zapkitty wrote:

hanelyp wrote:Or at least some of them at reduced scale.
http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=6090

Rumor going around the 'Net is that they were destroyed.

That rumor was going around before there was a net

And it's as false now as it was then. The blueprints etc etc etc etc etc were converted to microfiche and stored.

The preservation of such documentation was and is required by law.

It was the tooling and other hardware that was scrapped.

The complete plans to build a Saturn V moon rocket booster are yours for the asking... if you're an American citizen... and can fund the copying costs... and have a place to build it... and can recreate the tooling (not easy)... and can recreate the tooling expertise (even harder, how are you at cloning?)... you should get the idea by now

And your Saturn V would be obsolete and inefficient compared to systems built with current technology... and by the time you'd spent enough money to adapt the plans to current tech you would in essence be creating a new HLV from scratch...

A clean sheet of paper design would be faster and simpler.

Actually, blueprints are just copies. The originals would have been on vellum, and copies were in my personal experience sent to the archives every week when I worked for the Gov't. Actually, for the Saturn V the originals should be in the hands of the various contractors. How well the documents have been maintained is another question.

The story I've heard is that the Air Force wanted to archive the original blueprints and specs and that NASA lobbied congress to specifically prevent the Air Force from spending the money necessary for the archival, which was around $50,000. I have also heard that the NASA contractors were required to hand over all documentation to NASA folllowing the completion and shutdown of the Apollo program. I heard both of these stories in the mid 80's from multiple sources in the L-5 society. I have no idea as to their authenticity.

The J2 and F-1 engines could still be the basis for useful modernized designs. After all, NASA was playing around with J2X ideas for the Ares upper stage. You'd probably want to do a clean-sheet body these days using newer materials and manufacturing systems. I suspect only the engine designs would be directly useful.

And yeah, I've heard the story about the Saturn V blueprints being destroyed for the last two decades, nothing new about that rumor.

zapkitty wrote:And your Saturn V would be obsolete and inefficient compared to systems built with current technology...

Doubtful. Aside from some marginal refinements in structural materials there have been no substantial developments in rocket systems for 50 years. Its a mature technology.

djolds1 wrote:

zapkitty wrote:And your Saturn V would be obsolete and inefficient compared to systems built with current technology...

Doubtful. Aside from some marginal refinements in structural materials there have been no substantial developments in rocket systems for 50 years. Its a mature technology.

Errr... no.

Just one technology example of many... very many:

http://www.astronautix.com/engines/f1.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/engines/rd170.htm

Note the difference in Isp... in an era where engineers happily use sophisticated sliding nozzle extensions to gain a few seconds of Isp on the way to orbit the newer Russian engine starts out with a 44 second Isp advantage at sea level.

In large orbital launch vehicles 44 seconds of Isp is a lot.

Launch vehicle construction methods have advanced greatly and include materials and techniques that were simply unavailable and unachievable at the time of the Nova program and the F1 engine. Aluminum-Lithium alloy tanks, isogrid structure, spun single-piece tank domes, advanced insulation materials and friction-stir welding all would shave tons off of the Saturn V design.

And aerodynamic design is a whole other world from then.

A Saturn V would still work, and today might be regarded as an old but reliable workhorse just like the Russian launchers...

... if we could have afforded to keep making them.

But we couldn't afford them. And no rocket engineer today would seriously suggest trying to clone one. The shuttle stack does what the Saturn V does and does it much cheaper... once you shed that overweight and overpriced orbiter

Launch vehicle technology has come a long way since the Saturn V and it will advance further yet... if it is not overtaken by something like fusion.