MSimon wrote:Diogenes wrote:Radar vectored British fighter squadrons to rendezvous with attacking German aircraft. It allowed the British to have the effect of an air force many times larger than it really was. As a matter of fact, the Luftwaffe very much believed the British had a far larger Airforce.
Radar located attack subs in the Atlantic. Britain very nearly lost the war as a result of wolf pack tactics. Without Radar, those subs would have remained active.
Proximity Fuses made allied Anti-Aircraft incredibly deadly. Likewise the Anti-troop bombs and artillery shells which detonated at specified height in the air to scatter fragments down into trenches and behind equipment.
And so on.
Uh. No. As was pointed out: radar was used as cover for Enigma. Here is how it was done: Enigma gave the location.
Radar was then turned on (often a radar the Germans had a fuzz box for).
The Chain Home Radar system was turned on and wasn't turned off until it was phased out by Chain Home Low, (and subsequent systems) which were likewise never turned off. Don't know where you got that piece of information, but that is completely and utterly wrong.
MSimon wrote:
If the Germans made it back they reported: we were snooped by radar.
Not sure where this came from either. Initially, the Germans didn't know the British were using Radar.
From May to August 1939, the German Zeppelin LZ130 Graf Zeppelin II made flights along Britain's North Sea coast to investigate the 100 m high radio towers the British had erected from Portsmouth to Scapa Flow. LZ130 performed a series of radiometric tests and took photographs. German sources report the 12m Chain Home signals were detected and suspected to be radar; however, the chief investigator was not able to prove his suspicions, so Germany went to war uncertain of British radar defences.[8] Other sources are said to report different results.[9]
MSimon wrote:
In fact attacks on German shipping were required to have an aircraft "spotter" so the Germans wouldn't tumble to an intel break. Or a ruse was used. When Rommel's supplies were hit in a fog the Brits "thanked" Italian "agents" (notional) for their help in a code they knew the Germas could break. The Germans then went on an Italian agent hunt instead of suspecting Enigma.
This simply demonstrates the Usefulness of cracking enigma. No one is arguing that it wasn't useful. We are arguing which was the most valuable weapon system.
MSimon wrote:
And the Germans did add wheels during the war. But the Brits built computers at a fast enough rate (and also built faster machines) to keep ahead of the added complexity. It was not just a matter of adding wheels. They then had to distribute the new machines and new procedures. And there was almost always some overlap in time giving the Brits cribs and other hints on how the new machines were wired.
From memory, I recall reading that Donitz insisted that his subs have an Extra Wheel on their Enigma machines. For this reason, it was much later that the Submarine messages were successfully decoded.
In any case, an intercepted message will give you an approximate position, (probably no better than radio triangulation in the first place.) not nearly good enough for destroying the target. Radar gives an exact position where depth charges can be dropped.
Long Metal Objects floating in water are HUGE radar targets , especially from Aircraft. They are highly visible even when submerged to some depth.
Intercepted messages won't find a single submerged submarine. Radar would and did.
