Talk-Polywell.org

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http://www.pddnet.com/column-jim-lane-b ... ft-021210/

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Four Principles for the shift from a fossil fuel based society

1. The Right To Clean, Affordable Energy
2. Energy Must Be Consumed Within The Radius That It Is Produced
3. An Energy Finance System Must Permit Individuals To Participate
4. Energy Must Be Recognized As A Special Class Of Investment

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My answers:

1. What is mine is mine what is yours is the people's
2. How about any energy that can be delivered to a spot can be consumed on the spot. Unless the spot is mobile. If that is the case all bets are off.
3. I guess he has never heard of corporate bonds and stocks. I think the green slime has turned his brain to mush.
4. The usual rules of economics will not apply. The more people you can employ for a given amount of electrical output the better.

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In the US it takes 10 milliWatts to produce $1 of economic activity. We either need to get the milliwatts up or the dollars per milliwatt down.

What? 10 milliwatts produce $1? So a whole watt produces $100? So each month when I pay my electric bill for a dozen kilowatts, I have made someone a millionaires? That doesn't seem like the world I live in.

Maybe the numbers are off. Figure 1 TW electrical - 3 TW fuel for that.

An equal amount for transportation and stuff (like smelting metals) So that is 6 TW. $10 T GDP. About $1.60 a watt hour.



1 KWh = 3413 BTU.

1 Quad = 2.9307107e11 KWh

Total Quads
Transport 27.8
Industry 20.6
Com. Res. 10.8
Electric 40.1
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Total 99.3 Quads. = 2.9E13KWH or 29 T (KWh)/ $10T = 2.9 KWh/$

Aero wrote:What? 10 milliwatts produce $1? So a whole watt produces $100? So each month when I pay my electric bill for a dozen kilowatts, I have made someone a millionaires? That doesn't seem like the world I live in.

A simple dimensional analysis shows the error. To enter a state of having $100 more is a change of state, and changes of state are represented in units of energy, so maybe it'd be 10mJ to produce $100... or whatever. (I would've thought it was more like 100EJ/15T.USD = ~10MJ/USD)

GDP has dimensions of rate of change of state (i.e. power) as it is the change of state of wealth per annum. (100EJ/pa/15T.USD = ~0.2W/USD, that is to say, each USD of an annual GDP-dollar required an equivalent 0.2W to be burned continuously all year)


cf. (just looking for trends):
USA is around 100EJ/15T.USD_____________= ~ 10 MJ/USD,
Saudi is around 6EJ/600G.USD_____________= ~ 10 MJ/USD,
India is around 1EJ/3T.USD_______________= ~ 0.3 MJ/USD,
China is around 60EJ/9T.USD_______________= ~ 6 MJ/USD,
Russia is around 30EJ/2T.USD______________= ~ 15 MJ/USD
Norway is 1.6EJ/450G.USD_________________= ~ 3 MJ/USD,
UK and Germany are both around 10EJ/3TUSD = ~ 3 MJ/USD,
France is around 10EJ/2T.USD______________= ~ 5 MJ/USD,
Jersey (UK) is around 0.01EJ/6G.USD________= ~ 1 MJ/USD,
Jamaica is around 0.1EJ/14G.USD___________= ~ 7 MJ/USD.

(nope..I can't see any..)

MSimon wrote:In the US it takes 10 milliWatts to produce $1 of economic activity. We either need to get the milliwatts up or the dollars per milliwatt down.

There seems to have been a glitch in this original statement. You equated milliwatts to dollars, rate to unit. dimensions do not match.

Should that have been 10 milliwatt years per dollar or 10 milliwatts to $/year?

At 10milliwatt years / dollar, I get .088kWhr/dollar. Still seems low! This means 11.4 $/kWhr. Ok, plausible. With electricity prices at ABOUT $0.11/kWhr, this equation would suggest that energy costs are about 1% of the total cost of goods and services in the US. Yup. Seems low, but not outlandish.

Thanks! The statement should read:

We either need to get the milliwatts up or the milliwatts per dollar down.