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New Elements From Old
Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:06 am
by MSimon
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http://www.ecnmag.com/Blogs/2010/01/new ... m-old.aspx
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We are learning amazing things every day. Very useful things. Like how to make combinations of elements behave chemically like completely unrelated elements. Forty years ago it was learned that tungsten and carbon can be made to act like platinum. At least similar to platinum's behavior as a catalyst. And we now have a cluster of 13 aluminum atoms that can mimic some of the properties of iodine.
Re: New Elements From Old
Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:28 pm
by djolds1
MSimon wrote:*
http://www.ecnmag.com/Blogs/2010/01/new ... m-old.aspx
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We are learning amazing things every day. Very useful things. Like how to make combinations of elements behave chemically like completely unrelated elements. Forty years ago it was learned that tungsten and carbon can be made to act like platinum. At least similar to platinum's behavior as a catalyst. And we now have a cluster of 13 aluminum atoms that can mimic some of the properties of iodine.
dam*...
Re: New Elements From Old
Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:57 pm
by IntLibber
MSimon wrote:*
http://www.ecnmag.com/Blogs/2010/01/new ... m-old.aspx
*
We are learning amazing things every day. Very useful things. Like how to make combinations of elements behave chemically like completely unrelated elements. Forty years ago it was learned that tungsten and carbon can be made to act like platinum. At least similar to platinum's behavior as a catalyst. And we now have a cluster of 13 aluminum atoms that can mimic some of the properties of iodine.
Now you just need to get some elements to behave like gold and our monetary issues are solved...
Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:40 pm
by DeltaV
"Reactor walls made of superatomic metals may be the answer."
Hope it might also lead to lighter-weight radiation shields for flying Polywells.
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:08 am
by djolds1
DeltaV wrote:"Reactor walls made of superatomic metals may be the answer."
Hope it might also lead to lighter-weight radiation shields for flying Polywells.
What are the probable advantages and limitations of this technique? On average will "artificial atoms" be heavier or lighter than their natural counterparts? Suitable for structural applications, or best limited to catalytics and low strength/electronic applications?
Re: New Elements From Old
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:41 am
by Josh Cryer
IntLibber wrote:Now you just need to get some elements to behave like gold and our monetary issues are solved...
Meh, one of the most industrially worthless elements out there.
(It's good to con audiophiles to buy overpriced cables, though.)
Re: New Elements From Old
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:46 am
by MSimon
Josh Cryer wrote:IntLibber wrote:Now you just need to get some elements to behave like gold and our monetary issues are solved...
Meh, one of the most industrially worthless elements out there. :P
(It's good to con audiophiles to buy overpriced cables, though.)
If you are an engineer it must be software. Because gold is very valuable in engineering. It is excellent for low current contacts because it doesn't corrode and because it wipes well. i.e. contact forces cause it to flow.
The "fingers" on PCBs are gold plated. Harsh environment contacts are gold plated. And in some types of IC packaging gold wires are used because of its bonding characteristics with silicon.
It is also good for IR mirrors.
A very useful metal indeed.
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:05 am
by Josh Cryer
Almost 80% of all gold (production) is used in jewelry.
Compare that to another precious metal, platinum.
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:57 pm
by MSimon
Josh Cryer wrote:Almost 80% of all gold (production) is used in jewelry.
Compare that to another precious metal, platinum.
Rather slippery Josh considering you said:
Meh, one of the most industrially worthless elements out there. :P
You might as well say cotton is rather industrially worthless because most people wear it or use it purely for adornment.
Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:44 am
by Josh Cryer
MSimon wrote:You might as well say cotton is rather industrially worthless because most people wear it or use it purely for adornment.
That is a straw man and makes no sense whatsoever. Cottons industrial uses are numerous and beyond the scope of this post. Gold is used in dentistry, jewelry, coins, and as a value commodity. And it's used as connectors in computer equipment, its cost in any one computer in the pennies at most.
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:Ps ... ld-use.xls
Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:42 am
by MSimon
Josh Cryer wrote:MSimon wrote:You might as well say cotton is rather industrially worthless because most people wear it or use it purely for adornment.
That is a straw man and makes no sense whatsoever. Cottons industrial uses are numerous and beyond the scope of this post. Gold is used in dentistry, jewelry, coins, and as a value commodity. And it's used as connectors in computer equipment, its cost in any one computer in the pennies at most.
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:Ps ... ld-use.xls
And compare the industrial uses of cotton to its uses as adornment.
The cost is not the same as its usefulness.
Mann you seem to have taken lessons from the ClimateGate folks. Not surprising since you like to use them as a resource in discussions.
Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:38 pm
by KitemanSA
I've wondered on occasion whether the sacrosanct status of gold is psychological rather than anything else. We have spent millenia killing over the commodity. It's usage in technical efforts is often derided as a needless wasteful expense "a gold plated boondoggle" or as an attemp to fool, "gold plated watch".
Maybe the reason why we don't use gold much in industry is NOT that it is unuseful, but that we just can't bring ourselves to use it much.
I mean, who would even think to try using gold as an alloying material in steel. (Now one of you retentive googlers will find some obscure reference to such experiments)
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:12 am
by kunkmiester
It would be used a lot more if it was cheaper. Gold, IIRC, is actually a better conductor than just about anything else--paying $100 for a foot of cable is silly though.
Back on topic, if you can make something that resembles platinum or paladium on the chemical level, a large number of things such as fuel cells and certain kinds of batteries become much cheaper depending on production costs.
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:21 am
by MSimon
kunkmiester wrote:It would be used a lot more if it was cheaper. Gold, IIRC, is actually a better conductor than just about anything else--paying $100 for a foot of cable is silly though.
Back on topic, if you can make something that resembles platinum or paladium on the chemical level, a large number of things such as fuel cells and certain kinds of batteries become much cheaper depending on production costs.
Not to mention catalytic converters for IC engined cars.