Is it fair for moderators to be promoting politics here?

[BenTC]

While we're on the topic, i've always postulated the existence of a class of people which I refer to as "Contrarians." These are people who don't know what they think until they find out what other people think so that they can be on the opposite side.

Thats stupid. People aren't like that.
You make it sound like people have trust issues, or just like starting arguments.

-----excerpt-------
Brian: You're all induhviduals.
Crowd: We're all induhviduals.
Contrarian: I'm not.

[Diogenes]

While we're on the topic, i've always postulated the existence of a class of people which I refer to as "Contrarians." These are people who don't know what they think until they find out what other people think so that they can be on the opposite side.

Thats stupid. People aren't like that.
You make it sound like people have trust issues, or just like starting arguments.

-----excerpt-------
Brian: You're all induhviduals.
Crowd: We're all induhviduals.
Contrarian: I'm not.

Sometimes I'm a bit slow. Is that tongue in cheek, or are you serious ?

[JohnSmith]

He's got a Life of Brian quote, so I'd say tongue in cheek.

[pfrit]

He's got a Life of Brian quote, so I'd say tongue in cheek.

No, he is serious.

[MSimon]

Life seems to fill every niche in whatever habitat nature creates. As long as it is evolutionarily beneficial, a criminal class will continue to exist. It is like the bottom step of a set of stairs. If you remove it, the next step becomes the new bottom step.

True. But you can get more people to fill a niche by subsidizing it. You know: price supports for criminals.

[MSimon]

After carefully reviewing the six pages of submissions on this important issue, I think I can venture a tentative conclusion:

Q Is it fair for moderators to be promoting politics here?

A In moderation...

I have to agree with this. :)

Does this also apply to the floor sweepers?

[MSimon]

Well yes. I'm a contrarian. It comes from my engineering habits:

This won't work. That won't work. This costs too much.

After you keep slashing away at "not this" and "not that" you are left with a working design. And you absolutely have to be ruthless. It is easy to get hung up on "what an interesting idea" or "we have put so much effort into this path".

“Physicists dream of Nobel prizes, engineers dream of mishaps.” Hendrik Tennekes

Engineers are inherently conservative. Margins and safety factors are everyday facts of life.

[Diogenes]

Life seems to fill every niche in whatever habitat nature creates. As long as it is evolutionarily beneficial, a criminal class will continue to exist. It is like the bottom step of a set of stairs. If you remove it, the next step becomes the new bottom step.

True. But you can get more people to fill a niche by subsidizing it. You know: price supports for criminals.

You can deprive bacteria of food, or you can use a disinfectant. I personally favor the disinfectant.

[Diogenes]

Well yes. I'm a contrarian. It comes from my engineering habits:

This won't work. That won't work. This costs too much.

After you keep slashing away at "not this" and "not that" you are left with a working design. And you absolutely have to be ruthless. It is easy to get hung up on "what an interesting idea" or "we have put so much effort into this path".

“Physicists dream of Nobel prizes, engineers dream of mishaps.” Hendrik Tennekes

Engineers are inherently conservative. Margins and safety factors are everyday facts of life.

I think you are mistaking a skeptic for contrarian. A contrarian doesn't know what he thinks until he can find out what other people think so he can be against it.

Here is an old story about a wise old man who had to deal with a contrarian.


There once was a wise old man who was widely respected in his community (We'll call him Diogenes ) People came from all around to seek out his counsel because he was a deep and thoughtful thinker. One day an ignorant young punk, (we'll call him Barry) decided to get the better of the old man, and to show him up as a fool.

Barry searched until he found a little bird, and then holding it behind his back, he accosted the old man. He said: "Old Man! What is it that I have in my hands ?" The old man replied: "You have a little bird." "Ah, Yes! " said the young man, "But is it alive or is it dead?" Thinking to himself, that if the old man said it was alive, he would quickly twist it's head off and show the old man that it was dead, but if the old man said that it was dead, he would present the bird unharmed and demonstrate the old man to be wrong.

"Well, Which is it ? Alive or Dead ? " Said Barry.

The old man responded, "The Bird ... is ... in ... your ... hands. "

[MSimon]

Life seems to fill every niche in whatever habitat nature creates. As long as it is evolutionarily beneficial, a criminal class will continue to exist. It is like the bottom step of a set of stairs. If you remove it, the next step becomes the new bottom step.

True. But you can get more people to fill a niche by subsidizing it. You know: price supports for criminals.

You can deprive bacteria of food, or you can use a disinfectant. I personally favor the disinfectant.

And if bacteria learn to thrive on the disinfectant?

Or the case of chemotherapy which uses poisons to kill cancer. The dose has to be extremely finely calibrated - too little and you don't kill the cancer. Too much and you kill the patient.

The USSR was based on the enforcement model. You don't hear much about them these days. I guess they got their calibration wrong.

[MSimon]

Then I'm not a contrarian. Because what other people think is not of interest to me. If I thought I was correct I would hold my view no matter what others think.

[krenshala]

After carefully reviewing the six pages of submissions on this important issue, I think I can venture a tentative conclusion:

Q Is it fair for moderators to be promoting politics here?

A In moderation...

I have to agree with this.

Does this also apply to the floor sweepers?

I'm personally a fan of "Everything in moderation ... especially moderation". Take that how you will.

[MSimon]

Did you know the IVth Amendment was probably developed with smuggling investigations in mind?

http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/200 ... dment.html

[IntLibber]

Well yes. I'm a contrarian. It comes from my engineering habits:

This won't work. That won't work. This costs too much.

After you keep slashing away at "not this" and "not that" you are left with a working design. And you absolutely have to be ruthless. It is easy to get hung up on "what an interesting idea" or "we have put so much effort into this path".

“Physicists dream of Nobel prizes, engineers dream of mishaps.” Hendrik Tennekes

Engineers are inherently conservative. Margins and safety factors are everyday facts of life.

The point of hiring young people is so they can build what they don't know is impossible.

[MSimon]

Well yes. I'm a contrarian. It comes from my engineering habits:

This won't work. That won't work. This costs too much.

After you keep slashing away at "not this" and "not that" you are left with a working design. And you absolutely have to be ruthless. It is easy to get hung up on "what an interesting idea" or "we have put so much effort into this path".

“Physicists dream of Nobel prizes, engineers dream of mishaps.” Hendrik Tennekes

Engineers are inherently conservative. Margins and safety factors are everyday facts of life.

The point of hiring young people is so they can build what they don't know is impossible.

And then, when it doesn't work I try to give the newbies some advice.

The aerospace companies I have worked for prefer seasoned engineers.

Newbies seem to go for the "I'm so smart it doesn't matter how complicated the design is". Once they have been KISSed by the problems of complexity they generally moderate their dreams.