Restrict access to the pier, and only allow him to catch fish of a certain size (minimum wage) and he will surely starve but for the fish you give him. Minimum wage KILLS jobs for people with no skills.
How is a minimum wage a restriction on how much a person can make? It's an absolute minimum, not a maximum.
You are misstating the premise.
I did not say minimum wage restricted how much a person can make. I said it Prevents anyone from getting a job if they don't have the skills to make more than minimum wage. It prevents them from getting INTO the job market. My first job was $1.25 / hour. With my skill set THEN, I could not get a job NOW, either.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
Restrict access to the pier, and only allow him to catch fish of a certain size (minimum wage) and he will surely starve but for the fish you give him. Minimum wage KILLS jobs for people with no skills.
How is a minimum wage a restriction on how much a person can make? It's an absolute minimum, not a maximum.
You are misstating the premise.
I did not say minimum wage restricted how much a person can make. I said it Prevents anyone from getting a job if they don't have the skills to make more than minimum wage. It prevents them from getting INTO the job market. My first job was $1.25 / hour. With my skill set THEN, I could not get a job NOW, either.
Some jobs aren't tied to the federal minimum wage such as farm workers. As for your working at $1.25/hour how does that afford some one the ability to progress educationally or socio-economically in today's economy? A person at that wage in todays economy would have to work 24/7 just to survive. To put into perspective that's $30/day (full 24 hrs) or $210/week, this is not enough to survive on. Actually based on these numbers, they can't survive with the cost of living. All these numbers assuming the person is a machine that does not eat or sleep or take a shit for that matter.
In my opinion the minimum wage is pretty amazingly low already. It would be a crime to have jobs that pay less than that today.[/quote]
ladajo wrote:Opportunity is the key. In a competitive system, folks will rise to ability, only if they a.) can play, and b.) try.
I am all for opportunity. I am completely against free stuff.
It annoys the crap out of me, for example, that my tax money must pay for folks who make bad choices, and I postulate that many do so because they believe conciously or sub-conciously that there are safety nets sponsered at no cost or risk to them.
If you give folks free stuff, mostly, they want more free stuff after that. If you have any doubts, then look at entitlement obligations verses means to fund them.
It all makes me want to go live somewhere alone. If I do so, I will not expect anyone to bail me out, as it was my choice to do so, thus I take responsibility for my actions, and accept the consequence.
But, that is what lacks today, personal responsibilitly and accountability. As someone said, "too many kids are now of age that grew up getting trophies for losing."
I agree with most of what you said, but as you pointed out it's about opportunity and capability. Unfortunately there isn't much opportunity out there right now. I'm all for reform of some social programs such that they resemble their original purpose, but I'm against letting people die on the streets around us because they couldn't afford the same opportunities I received. I really do feel that removing these social programs will lead to greater poverty within our nation, but I believe we can require to receive said funds, that the person pass or contribute in a meaningful way. This does not imply we make slaves out of them for the state, but allow them to contribute in the same manner other people of society do until they are capable of standing on their own. Personally I'd like to see them educated in math and science so perhaps we can as a nation have a competitive edge again.
I really do feel that removing these social programs will lead to greater poverty within our nation, but I believe we can require to receive said funds, that the person pass or contribute in a meaningful way.
I would offer that it may be a short term pain of increased poverty until folks get the message that "The Free Stuff Gravy Train" left the station.
I also fully agree that to receive assistance, it must be earned. There is plenty of stuff to do to improve our nation and society instead of these folks doing nothing for something.
I also agree that there should be an educational component to it.
I think the biggest issue is buy in. These folks have no impetus to contribute. I believe the difference between "us" and "them" (couldn't think of a better way to put it on the fly), is that we have some level of buy in into society and contribution, while they seem not.
ScottL wrote:
How is a minimum wage a restriction on how much a person can make? It's an absolute minimum, not a maximum.
You are misstating the premise.
I did not say minimum wage restricted how much a person can make. I said it Prevents anyone from getting a job if they don't have the skills to make more than minimum wage. It prevents them from getting INTO the job market. My first job was $1.25 / hour. With my skill set THEN, I could not get a job NOW, either.
Some jobs aren't tied to the federal minimum wage such as farm workers.
Union Jobs get automatic pay increases every time minimum wage goes up. Did you ever wonder why Unions and Democrats were so insistent on raising minimum wage all the time? (It's not because they are concerned about entry level jobs.)
ScottL wrote:
As for your working at $1.25/hour how does that afford some one the ability to progress educationally or socio-economically in today's economy? A person at that wage in todays economy would have to work 24/7 just to survive. To put into perspective that's $30/day (full 24 hrs) or $210/week, this is not enough to survive on. Actually based on these numbers, they can't survive with the cost of living. All these numbers assuming the person is a machine that does not eat or sleep or take a shit for that matter.
That is not the purpose of such a low paying job. These jobs are for the purpose of letting students\young people get work experience so as to be more desirable to employers in the future. Teenagers living at home who need a job for experience and spending money are well suited to these jobs. These jobs are not SUPPOSED to be a living wage, only an entry system into the market.
ScottL wrote:
In my opinion the minimum wage is pretty amazingly low already. It would be a crime to have jobs that pay less than that today.
It is a crime to require someone to pay $7.25 per hour for work that is only worth $1.00 per hour, and thereby exclude from the opportunity to work those who are only capable of producing a little value in exchange for their efforts.
The bar is too high for someone to get into the job market and gain experience. I know a dozen teenagers right now that can't find work because it costs too much to hire a teenager of unknown work ability.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
ladajo wrote:Opportunity is the key. In a competitive system, folks will rise to ability, only if they a.) can play, and b.) try.
I am all for opportunity. I am completely against free stuff.
It annoys the crap out of me, for example, that my tax money must pay for folks who make bad choices, and I postulate that many do so because they believe conciously or sub-conciously that there are safety nets sponsered at no cost or risk to them.
If you give folks free stuff, mostly, they want more free stuff after that. If you have any doubts, then look at entitlement obligations verses means to fund them.
It all makes me want to go live somewhere alone. If I do so, I will not expect anyone to bail me out, as it was my choice to do so, thus I take responsibility for my actions, and accept the consequence.
But, that is what lacks today, personal responsibilitly and accountability. As someone said, "too many kids are now of age that grew up getting trophies for losing."
I really do feel that removing these social programs will lead to greater poverty within our nation,
We had less poverty BEFORE the social programs. All the programs have accomplished is to create MORE people born into poverty. ( and provide simpleminded voters for Democrats, which is their ACTUAL purpose.) You should read what Daniel Patrick Monihan had to say about the poverty programs, and he was a PROMINENT Democrat, but HE had ETHICS.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
ladajo wrote:
I think the biggest issue is buy in. These folks have no impetus to contribute. I believe the difference between "us" and "them" (couldn't think of a better way to put it on the fly), is that we have some level of buy in into society and contribution, while they seem not.
Yes.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
I would agree that the primary focus of government today is not to help folks, but to buy their votes. Most of the programs are IMO prime examples of vote buying.
Elected Official Prime Impetus: Get Re-Elected.
We are today painfully discovering that you can only buy so many votes before you are so far in debt, it is no longer sustainable. I am not sure how the train wreck will turn out, but a train wreck it will be.
Installed on the Air Force’s existing fleet of Reaper drones, the gunfire-detection system would make attacking U.S. troops a highly risky proposition. The Air Force wants to link the fire-detector with other Wide Field-of-View (WFOV) sensors like the Gorgon Stare, which uses a bundle of cameras to watch over miles at a time. The sensors entered service on Reapers this year. “The goal of this effort is to provide an event (enemy and friendly weapons fire) detection system that can provide real-time notification that can be overlaid on WFOV motion imagery by sensor operators,”
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
Expect the Nerf version at Toys R Us for Christmas.
Remotely operated weapons are showing up everywhere. Israel is building an automated kill zone. An American firm, More Industries, offers a turret that can aim and fire two automatic shotguns.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
Years ago I repaired a bullet detection system for an air force Bombing/strafing Range. It used the supersonic wake of bullets to determine their proximity to a target acoustically. It was used to train Air force pilots to strafe on target (A couple of telephone poles with a canvas strung between them.) with their 1/2 second burst of ammo. The system would produce a hit/no-hit count on a readout which set an acoustical target cone based on a calibrated amplifier's settings.
Within a year thereafter it was replaced with a system that mapped the projectile's trajectory in three dimensional space. Much more useful because it could give the pilots better feedback than the previous system. (Which was really old.)
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
Years ago I repaired a bullet detection system for an air force Bombing/strafing Range. It used the supersonic wake of bullets to determine their proximity to a target acoustically. It was used to train Air force pilots to strafe on target (A couple of telephone poles with a canvas strung between them.) with their 1/2 second burst of ammo. The system would produce a hit/no-hit count on a readout which set an acoustical target cone based on a calibrated amplifier's settings.
Within a year thereafter it was replaced with a system that mapped the projectile's trajectory in three dimensional space. Much more useful because it could give the pilots better feedback than the previous system. (Which was really old.)
Wait....you repaired a bullet detection system that waited for the wake or sound of the bullet? Please clarify as the bullet would've already hit the target before either the wake or the sound were detected.
Years ago I repaired a bullet detection system for an air force Bombing/strafing Range. It used the supersonic wake of bullets to determine their proximity to a target acoustically. It was used to train Air force pilots to strafe on target (A couple of telephone poles with a canvas strung between them.) with their 1/2 second burst of ammo. The system would produce a hit/no-hit count on a readout which set an acoustical target cone based on a calibrated amplifier's settings.
Within a year thereafter it was replaced with a system that mapped the projectile's trajectory in three dimensional space. Much more useful because it could give the pilots better feedback than the previous system. (Which was really old.)
Wait....you repaired a bullet detection system that waited for the wake or sound of the bullet? Please clarify as the bullet would've already hit the target before either the wake or the sound were detected.
