A picture is worth a thousand words.

[bcglorf]

This says nothing about where Obama Jr. was born in 1961, however, and the fact is that Obama Sr. was not an American citizen, so his son had dual citizenship when he was born, no matter where he was born, and was thus not "natural born"

That is a legal opinion, and not just any legal opinion, but an interpretation of the Constitution. Of course, you're perfectly free to make it, but the executors of the law may not recognize your authority or legal expertise. Fortunately or unfortunately, there is more than one way to interpret the Constitution—even for conservatives.

and his adoption by Lolo Soetoro would have made him an Indonesian citizen, which would have required him to renaturalize when he returned to the US.

Has it ever been established that Obama was adopted by his stepfather? By more than just circumstantial evidence?

Not concerned with the election. Was concerned with whether or not we had a legitimate President.

Well, I'm relieved to know that the all-important question is settled now.

It is as far as i'm concerned. (Unless new information provokes a re-think.)



Check your private messages people!

Oh dear. I, like I believe most people, had ignored and auto-deleted any spam or junk links to 'nudy pics of Obama's mom'. I had, I think quite rationally, rejected them out of hand as just so much spam.

Point is, I STILL see nothing that would change my mind on this. If anything, you've provided all the more reason for me to stand by the more obvious assumption that these photos are faked and are not in fact photos of Obama's mom posing naked.

[bcglorf]

That is a legal opinion, and not just any legal opinion, but an interpretation of the Constitution. Of course, you're perfectly free to make it, but the executors of the law may not recognize your authority or legal expertise. Fortunately or unfortunately, there is more than one way to interpret the Constitution—even for conservatives.
Has it ever been established that Obama was adopted by his stepfather? By more than just circumstantial evidence?
Well, I'm relieved to know that the all-important question is settled now.

It is as far as i'm concerned. (Unless new information provokes a re-think.)



Check your private messages people!

Oh dear. I, like I believe most people, had ignored and auto-deleted any spam or junk links to 'nudy pics of Obama's mom'. I had, I think quite rationally, rejected them out of hand as just so much spam.

Point is, I STILL see nothing that would change my mind on this. If anything, you've provided all the more reason for me to stand by the more obvious assumption that these photos are faked and are not in fact photos of Obama's mom posing naked.

and curse you for my userid and "naked pics of Obama's mom" now actually having some kind of existent connection, even if it is in the disgusted and dismissive rejection of same.

[seedload]

I'm just going to lay it out.

What usually follows is the burial.

BTW all this speculation was covered in massive detail when the picture came out during the campaign season.

If you want to have a better insight into his election chances, who his mother was screwing is not high on the list.

Following gasoline prices and the jobless numbers will give you better results.

Not concerned with the election. Was concerned with whether or not we had a legitimate President.

But isn't that where the whole theory falls apart. If the theory is to stand then the argument is that Obama would rather be perceived as:

Having a communist mentor and a foreign Muslim father.

... than...

Having a communist American father.

Again, the later seems more electable than the former especially since the former also puts into question his legitimacy. So, why the deception? Just for giggles I really wish I understood the theory.

[Diogenes]

It is as far as i'm concerned. (Unless new information provokes a re-think.)



Check your private messages people!

Oh dear. I, like I believe most people, had ignored and auto-deleted any spam or junk links to 'nudy pics of Obama's mom'. I had, I think quite rationally, rejected them out of hand as just so much spam.

Point is, I STILL see nothing that would change my mind on this. If anything, you've provided all the more reason for me to stand by the more obvious assumption that these photos are faked and are not in fact photos of Obama's mom posing naked.

and curse you for my userid and "naked pics of Obama's mom" now actually having some kind of existent connection, even if it is in the disgusted and dismissive rejection of same.

They convinced me. You didn't need convincing. (If I recall properly.) You were willing to grant him legitimacy without any proof. I wanted proof, and the pictures provide enough proof to convince me.

[bcglorf]

Oh dear. I, like I believe most people, had ignored and auto-deleted any spam or junk links to 'nudy pics of Obama's mom'. I had, I think quite rationally, rejected them out of hand as just so much spam.

Point is, I STILL see nothing that would change my mind on this. If anything, you've provided all the more reason for me to stand by the more obvious assumption that these photos are faked and are not in fact photos of Obama's mom posing naked.

and curse you for my userid and "naked pics of Obama's mom" now actually having some kind of existent connection, even if it is in the disgusted and dismissive rejection of same.

They convinced me. You didn't need convincing. (If I recall properly.) You were willing to grant him legitimacy without any proof. I wanted proof, and the pictures provide enough proof to convince me.

Proof. You keep using that word, but I do not think it means what you think it does.

In your use of the word the following are NOT proof:
1.A certified copy of Obama's birth certificate.
2.Acceptance from all relevant authorities as being qualified to run for the Presidency.
3.A Hawain newspaper anouncement of his birth.
4.A certified copy of his long form birth certificate.
5.All the other evidence that has persuaded even his biggest rivals, including McCain and Hillary.

In your use of the word, the follow IS proof:
1.Unverified pictures of a naked woman resembling Obama's mother...


Seriously?????????

[Diogenes]

Not concerned with the election. Was concerned with whether or not we had a legitimate President.

But isn't that where the whole theory falls apart. If the theory is to stand then the argument is that Obama would rather be perceived as:

Having a communist mentor and a foreign Muslim father.

... than...

Having a communist American father.

Again, the later seems more electable than the former especially since the former also puts into question his legitimacy. So, why the deception? Just for giggles I really wish I understood the theory.

I am not trying to explain why Barack did this or that. I am simply going where they evidence takes me. The Evidence leads away from Barack Sr. . There may be an eventual explanation for the why. In the meantime, I am accustomed to people doing all sorts of silly and irrational things in their lives.

[Ivy Matt]

Oh, laws. I was afraid this thread might be headed in that direction. I already brought up the American father hypothesis in the other thread although, to be fair, it did not involve any naked pictures. Frank Marshall Davis and Malcolm X are the usual candidates for that hypothesis. (Why not Bob the custodian?) I might wish to dispute the authenticity of the photograph(s), but as long as Diogenes' mind is settled on the matter, why bother?

As for me, I'm more concerned about the election.

[Diogenes]

They convinced me. You didn't need convincing. (If I recall properly.) You were willing to grant him legitimacy without any proof. I wanted proof, and the pictures provide enough proof to convince me.

Proof. You keep using that word, but I do not think it means what you think it does.

In your use of the word the following are NOT proof:
1.A certified copy of Obama's birth certificate.
2.Acceptance from all relevant authorities as being qualified to run for the Presidency.
3.A Hawain newspaper anouncement of his birth.
4.A certified copy of his long form birth certificate.
5.All the other evidence that has persuaded even his biggest rivals, including McCain and Hillary.

In your use of the word, the follow IS proof:
1.Unverified pictures of a naked woman resembling Obama's mother...

Seriously?????????

I'll take it point by point.

1.A certified copy of Obama's birth certificate.

My birth certificate is certified too. It's a lie. The original is true. Stop talking to me about what a State Bureaucrat "certifies" and show me the original.

2.Acceptance from all relevant authorities as being qualified to run for the Presidency.

I see. Since they say something, it must be true, right? Look up Fallacy of Authority.

3.A Hawain newspaper anouncement of his birth.

I consider that very good proof that he was born at that time. I don't consider it a replacement for an Original Birth Certificate.

4.A certified copy of his long form birth certificate.

A "certified copy of the record on file". Sorry, I didn't see the word "Original" in there. Other Birth Certificates of that time period say "a True and Correct copy of the Original Record on file..."

5.All the other evidence that has persuaded even his biggest rivals, including McCain and Hillary.

Perhaps if they had been smarter, they wouldn't have lost? I am not responsible for the lack of knowledge demonstrated by other people, even former Presidential Candidates. How they can be certain on an issue of which insufficient information has been presented, is their own business. In any case, you are repeating the "Fallacy of Authority."

In your use of the word, the follow IS proof:
1.Unverified pictures of a naked woman resembling Obama's mother...

Well, the first thing it has going for it is that it didn't come from Obama or his camp.
Secondly, the woman not only looks exactly like Stanley Ann Dunham, but she has a crooked tooth in the exact same place as Stanley Ann Dunham. A coincidence that stretches credulity too far.
Thirdly, the photograph corroborates other information which you have not yet seen, and is inherently consistent, while the "Official" story of Obama's birth and early life is full of contradictions and inconsistencies.

How came these photographs onto the Internet? Frank Davis had a hobby of photographing nudes. (According to researcher Jack Cashill, who has recently published the book "Deconstructing Obama") He had an entire collection of Nude Photos of his conquests, and he swapped images of them with other collectors in the mid 1980s. He was a well known friend and Drinking buddy of Stanley Armour Dunham (The grandfather), and he knew the Dunhams since they moved from Seattle to Hawaii.


Look, you can believe what you want. *I* research this, and I read about what other people have found. As far as i'm concerned, till some new information is presented which contradicts what I believe, I'm going to continue to believe that Barack Sr. is NOT the father of Barack Jr., and Frank Davis probably is.

If Obama had an original birth certificate that would pass scrutiny, he would have produced it a long time ago.

[Diogenes]

Oh, laws. I was afraid this thread might be headed in that direction. I already brought up the American father hypothesis in the other thread although, to be fair, it did not involve any naked pictures. Frank Marshall Davis and Malcolm X are the usual candidates for that hypothesis. (Why not Bob the custodian?) I might wish to dispute the authenticity of the photograph(s), but as long as Diogenes' mind is settled on the matter, why bother?

As for me, I'm more concerned about the election.

You would have thought that he should have taken what he could get. I have been convinced that Obama is legitimate only because I now believe he has an American Father. Had I believed Obama's original Narrative, I would still be maintaining that You cannot have a legitimate President with Divided National Loyalties.

I am not interested in Legal Opinion, or documents of uncertain veracity. I am interested in knowing what the real truth is. At this point, I don't think it really matters anymore beyond my own satisfaction. The law is something we play by ear nowadays.

[bcglorf]

They convinced me. You didn't need convincing. (If I recall properly.) You were willing to grant him legitimacy without any proof. I wanted proof, and the pictures provide enough proof to convince me.

Proof. You keep using that word, but I do not think it means what you think it does.

In your use of the word the following are NOT proof:
1.A certified copy of Obama's birth certificate.
2.Acceptance from all relevant authorities as being qualified to run for the Presidency.
3.A Hawain newspaper anouncement of his birth.
4.A certified copy of his long form birth certificate.
5.All the other evidence that has persuaded even his biggest rivals, including McCain and Hillary.

In your use of the word, the follow IS proof:
1.Unverified pictures of a naked woman resembling Obama's mother...

Seriously?????????

I'll take it point by point.

1.A certified copy of Obama's birth certificate.

My birth certificate is certified too. It's a lie. The original is true. Stop talking to me about what a State Bureaucrat "certifies" and show me the original.

2.Acceptance from all relevant authorities as being qualified to run for the Presidency.

I see. Since they say something, it must be true, right? Look up Fallacy of Authority.

3.A Hawain newspaper anouncement of his birth.

I consider that very good proof that he was born at that time. I don't consider it a replacement for an Original Birth Certificate.

4.A certified copy of his long form birth certificate.

A "certified copy of the record on file". Sorry, I didn't see the word "Original" in there. Other Birth Certificates of that time period say "a True and Correct copy of the Original Record on file..."

5.All the other evidence that has persuaded even his biggest rivals, including McCain and Hillary.

Perhaps if they had been smarter, they wouldn't have lost? I am not responsible for the lack of knowledge demonstrated by other people, even former Presidential Candidates. How they can be certain on an issue of which insufficient information has been presented, is their own business. In any case, you are repeating the "Fallacy of Authority."

In your use of the word, the follow IS proof:
1.Unverified pictures of a naked woman resembling Obama's mother...

Well, the first thing it has going for it is that it didn't come from Obama or his camp.
Secondly, the woman not only looks exactly like Stanley Ann Dunham, but she has a crooked tooth in the exact same place as Stanley Ann Dunham. A coincidence that stretches credulity too far.
Thirdly, the photograph corroborates other information which you have not yet seen, and is inherently consistent, while the "Official" story of Obama's birth and early life is full of contradictions and inconsistencies.

How came these photographs onto the Internet? Frank Davis had a hobby of photographing nudes. (According to researcher Jack Cashill, who has recently published the book "Deconstructing Obama") He had an entire collection of Nude Photos of his conquests, and he swapped images of them with other collectors in the mid 1980s. He was a well known friend and Drinking buddy of Stanley Armour Dunham (The grandfather), and he knew the Dunhams since they moved from Seattle to Hawaii.


Look, you can believe what you want. *I* research this, and I read about what other people have found. As far as i'm concerned, till some new information is presented which contradicts what I believe, I'm going to continue to believe that Barack Sr. is NOT the father of Barack Jr., and Frank Davis probably is.

If Obama had an original birth certificate that would pass scrutiny, he would have produced it a long time ago.

Right. If Obama had produced his original(not a copy) of his long form birth certificate even before he announced his candidacy for the Democratic leadership, you wouldn't have been concerned about it's authenticity nor the authority that issued it to him asserting it was in fact the true original.

I do not believe that to be true, and I'd appreciate if you'd stop insulting me by expecting me to believe it.

The fact is you accept a huge chain of circumstantial evidence to confirm a naked picture is authentically Obama's mother, but you can not accept as authentic, signed and certified copies of Obama's birth certificate.

You are on most points rational and logical, but in this I must say you are certifiably insane.

[Diogenes]

Right. If Obama had produced his original(not a copy) of his long form birth certificate even before he announced his candidacy for the Democratic leadership, you wouldn't have been concerned about it's authenticity nor the authority that issued it to him asserting it was in fact the true original.

I do not believe that to be true, and I'd appreciate if you'd stop insulting me by expecting me to believe it..

I am currently thinking I have been wasting my time by not insulting you. If Obama's Original birth certificate claims a non American as his Father, he's automatically out on that basis alone. It is only by recognizing that a birth certificate doesn't really PROVE who your father is, that I can grant him any legitimacy.

Article II is about Divided Loyalty. If his Father is Not an American, he is not a natural born citizen. It's really that simple. Since i'm not buying the documents, I have to look for other evidence. What I find is more compelling, and points to his father being an American.

The fact is you accept a huge chain of circumstantial evidence to confirm a naked picture is authentically Obama's mother, but you can not accept as authentic, signed and certified copies of Obama's birth certificate.

You are on most points rational and logical, but in this I must say you are certifiably insane.

That is your perspective. (Personally I think everyone is a bit insane.) From my perspective I know what i'm talking about and you don't. How about another piece of evidence?



This is a piece of a birth Certificate. Nothing peculiar here. If someone only showed you this much, you would never think there was anything odd about it.

[Diogenes]

Now suppose you got see another little bit.





Whoa! How can the filing dates between Local And State Registrars be so out of whack? A lot of birth certificates don't even show you the Local Registrar. This discrepancy wouldn't even have been noticeable on one such as that.


So, how to explain it? Did someone make a mistake?

[seedload]

Not concerned with the election. Was concerned with whether or not we had a legitimate President.

But isn't that where the whole theory falls apart. If the theory is to stand then the argument is that Obama would rather be perceived as:

Having a communist mentor and a foreign Muslim father.

... than...

Having a communist American father.

Again, the later seems more electable than the former especially since the former also puts into question his legitimacy. So, why the deception? Just for giggles I really wish I understood the theory.

I am not trying to explain why Barack did this or that. I am simply going where they evidence takes me. The Evidence leads away from Barack Sr. . There may be an eventual explanation for the why. In the meantime, I am accustomed to people doing all sorts of silly and irrational things in their lives.

I don't know, motive is usually a pretty important part of investigatin'. Too important to blow off, IMHO.

So, what motive? What is the cover up of? What name was on the original? Frank Davis'? None?

[bcglorf]

Notice the peculiarity of the Local Registrar vs the State Registrar Date received?

Nope, it's just your insanity coming full circle again on you.

The image your giving has the following dates:
Local Registrar Date: March 27, 1967
State Registrar Date: April 5, 1961

Now, I'm guessing the the March 27, 1967 is a typo and is supposed to be 1961. But, that doesn't matter anyways.

What matters is that the image you give, whatever it is, it is NOT from Obama's long form birth certificate. You see Obama was born August 4, 1961 and I'm pretty sure Hawaii isn't in the habit of sending birth certificates to the state registrar several months before a child is born.

Oh wait, that just deepens the conspiracy somehow, doesn't it?


If Obama's Original birth certificate claims a non American as his Father, he's automatically out on that basis alone.

If your right, then there should be no argument. He's laid claim to the long form certificate presented and every politician in the nation seems to have accepted that. If the evidence on the form invalidates him, the conspiracy to avoid/deny it is deep indeed. Even the Republicans are in on it.

I suspect instead that the father Obama 'claims' on the long form certificate either was in fact an American citizen at that time, or that being born on American soil to an American mother is enough for natural born citizen status. Either way, you haven't exactly instilled enough confidence in me to take your opinion over my own, let alone the collectively agreed upon opinion of virtually every legal expert and political opponent that Obama is faced with.

[Ivy Matt]

Article II is about Divided Loyalty. If his Father is Not an American, he is not a natural born citizen. It's really that simple.

Wait, are we still not talking about legal opinions? Because this sure sounds like one.