Independent Firearm Owners of America - legalize the weed

GIThruster · Post by **GIThruster** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:22 am

Blah, blah, blah. . .do drugs, be happy with drugs, we should all do drugs. . .blah, blah, blah.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:23 am

You can do anything you want with laws except make Americans obey them.

With the popular consensus running against you there is no way you can make a police state (which is what effective prohibition requires) work.

At least one state will be legalizing on the 6th. Probably two. And possibly three. State legalization was how alcohol prohibition died. Without state enforcement the Feds are relatively powerless.

If nothing dire happens after legalization then other states will join in. esp given the pension fund woes of most states. Why spend money an anything that does not get votes or union support? And the unions are turning against prohibition.

Speaking of unions:

Former European Union Drug Czar slams drug prohibition

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:48 am

GIThruster wrote:Blah, blah, blah. . .do drugs, be happy with drugs, we should all do drugs. . .blah, blah, blah.

That is a rather extreme position. When did you change your mind?

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:11 am

http://classicalvalues.com/2012/11/the_ ... forbidden/

The banning of some drugs (cocaine, marijuana) and not others is (alcohol, tobacco) is pure religious superstition. The decline of religion in America probably explains why the legalization movement is gaining ground. The Devil Weed is now falling into the same category as Demon Rum.

Some humor on the subject:

Coffee declared a Schedule I Drug

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgIEYPdD ... re=related

choff · Post by **choff** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:28 am

MSimon wrote:You can do anything you want with laws except make Americans obey them.

With the popular consensus running against you there is no way you can make a police state (which is what effective prohibition requires) work.

At least one state will be legalizing on the 6th. Probably two. And possibly three. State legalization was how alcohol prohibition died. Without state enforcement the Feds are relatively powerless.

If nothing dire happens after legalization then other states will join in. esp given the pension fund woes of most states. Why spend money an anything that does not get votes or union support? And the unions are turning against prohibition.

Speaking of unions:

Former European Union Drug Czar slams drug prohibition

The Europeans have also rejected water fluoridation, but allow the central bank to drive them to ruin.

It matters little what prohibitions you remove if new ones are created, otherwise you'll unemploy the whole unionized industry surrounding it, and the prohibitions rely on Americans disobedience of the law to make them work.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:52 pm

It matters little what prohibitions you remove if new ones are created, otherwise you'll unemploy the whole unionized industry surrounding it, and the prohibitions rely on Americans disobedience of the law to make them work.

As Wm. Burroughs used to say - "The marks are wising up"

Still a long way to go.

But you are correct. The controllers want the laws disobeyed.

Pot prohibition got a new life when H. Anslinger got assigned to it after losing his job in Alcohol Prohibition enforcement.

Maybe we will get tobacco prohibition. But maybe we will get nothing.

choff · Post by **choff** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:03 pm

Will the marks wise up? Hmm, good question, since we mentioned Ayn Rand in the other thread, I'll give a real wold example of something she wrote a fairy tale about - the light bulb.

Because conspiracy theories are ficticious, we all know that light bulbs were never deliberately designed to fail, it was impossible to create a cheap light bulb that could last forever. If that were the case, inexpensive light bulbs would exist, still in operation from before said conspiracy ever took place, and we all know that's complete nonsense.

For such a conspiracy to take place, all the light bulb manufacturers throughout the world would have to be in on it. But not just the manufacturers, but the entire legal and political system of every country. Otherwise antimonopoly laws and private lawsuits would have put a stop to such nonsense right from the start.

But it gets worse, because every press outlet the world over would also have to be in on fraud, as well as the education systems of every country. Once again, the global population would have to be conditioned into replacing lightbulbs their entire lives without ever wondering why.

But what makes such a conspiracy even more absurd, is that why would so much effort be put into such a mundane item as the light bulb, when we know that the real money is in oil, military procurements, food and pharmaceuticals.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:41 pm

MSimon wrote:http://classicalvalues.com/2012/11/the_ ... forbidden/

The banning of some drugs (cocaine, marijuana) and not others is (alcohol, tobacco) is pure religious superstition. The decline of religion in America probably explains why the legalization movement is gaining ground. The Devil Weed is now falling into the same category as Demon Rum.

Some humor on the subject:

Coffee declared a Schedule I Drug

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgIEYPdD ... re=related

An Engineer that spends more time on unproven theory than actual real world experiment, and then complains about the "progressives" who did the exact same thing.

You have no experience with Cocaine, Crack or Meth. You are in the wading pool of the drug culture, and yet you think you know how things will turn out. You REALLY need some crack addicted friends to educate you.

You are right about religion being involved in your crusade, but the insane beliefs and cult like devotion is entirely from you.

hanelyp · Post by **hanelyp** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:46 pm

it was impossible to create a cheap light bulb that could last forever.

Not so difficult, just run the filament cooler. The drawback is the horrid lighting efficiency of a cooler filament.

Advancing LED tech may give us practical cheap lights that last practically forever before too long. But to get such a long life requires getting away from driving the LEDs near the edge of their capacity with minimal cooling, as is common practice today.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:47 pm

MSimon wrote:
It matters little what prohibitions you remove if new ones are created, otherwise you'll unemploy the whole unionized industry surrounding it, and the prohibitions rely on Americans disobedience of the law to make them work.
As Wm. Burroughs used to say - "The marks are wising up"

Still a long way to go.

But you are correct. The controllers want the laws disobeyed.

Pot prohibition got a new life when H. Anslinger got assigned to it after losing his job in Alcohol Prohibition enforcement.

Maybe we will get tobacco prohibition. But maybe we will get nothing.

I notice you never answer when someone has blown your argument to shreds. Tobacco is proof that your theory is nonsense. Leaving drugs legal increases usage, and tobacco is a prime example of this.

No matter, just ignore contradictory evidence, and keep repeating your propaganda Ad nauseam.

choff · Post by **choff** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:32 am

hanelyp wrote:
it was impossible to create a cheap light bulb that could last forever.
Not so difficult, just run the filament cooler. The drawback is the horrid lighting efficiency of a cooler filament.

Advancing LED tech may give us practical cheap lights that last practically forever before too long. But to get such a long life requires getting away from driving the LEDs near the edge of their capacity with minimal cooling, as is common practice today.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/light-bulb-conspiracy/

paperburn1 · Post by **paperburn1** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:33 pm

The bottom line is you can not use legislation to achieve morality.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:41 pm

paperburn1 wrote:The bottom line is you can not use legislation to achieve morality.

That is a cliche. All laws are legislated morality. They are nothing else.

paperburn1 · Post by **paperburn1** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:05 pm

Diogenes wrote:
paperburn1 wrote:The bottom line is you can not use legislation to achieve morality.

That is a cliche. All laws are legislated morality. They are nothing else.

Could one use the view that laws only enforce the morality determined by the group? Then changing the law would only occur after the meal code has changed. OK I known then what about stainless, hitler ect ect that hadtheforce oflaw behind them but we're not moral men.
Sorry trying to type on the droid I will hold on this until I can get to the keyboard

GIThruster · Post by **GIThruster** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:22 pm

Laws don't enforce the morality of the majority. For all of the years since Roe v. Wade the majority has been opposed to abortion, but it remains legally available. The majority has probably never agreed to income tax but it is the law of the land. People would never agree to parking and speeding tickets, but of course they have no choice. What is made law has only a little to do with the morality of the majority. Especially when you more the majority does not usually make law. Most law is made by legislatures. Only ballot measures, which a re a violation of the idea of a Republic, are law passed by the majority, and even they need a specialist to write them. Some interested party needs to decide to invest in order to write the ballot measure and organize the troops to get signatures. That does not entail a majority even after the vote, since many won't show up to vote and many will vote the wrong way on a ballot measure because they don't understand the proposal.