Please, Try to Make a Lovely Peaceful World

[MSimon]

MSimon, agree on all the previous articles, but regarding the last one, I would advise you to not throw stones if you are sitting in a glass house...
The US has the death penalty and people are executed all the time. It is not public and you have not been hanging people for a few decades, but the victims families are present and some other people...
I am not to sure about the guilt of some of those executed either. Like the guy that supposedly burned his family in Texas. Several independent experts cleared him...
Edit: Since you made another post since then, I want to clarify that I am referring to the post about the minor being hung.

I was not objecting to the death penalty. I think it is way overused in America but I do think it is deserved in some cases. I was objecting to the death penalty for

1. a minor
2. manslaughter

I must say that there is little to be proud of in Illinois - but my current state has abolished the death penalty.

[Aslan]

In some cases you may be right. It should be said that, maybe your government shows the world news against ours and my governement shows against yours. Perhaps, you only have access to your media, and fortunately, I have both. So maybe I can be more fair to judge.

Firstly, I would like to hear each other comments without criticism.

1 - Who gave money and weapons to the Taliban and Al Qaeda's war against the Russians?
2 - You know, Hezbollah and Hamas leaders, existed before our leaders?
3 - Who encouraged Saddam to attack Iran?
4 - Who encouraged Saddam to attack Kuwait?
5 - Who is supporting the region's dictatorships?
6 - Who was the support of Colonel Gaddafi?
7 - How to Hosni Mubarak's support?
8 - Who is responsible for the assassination in Iran and 10,000 killed in the last thirty years ?
9 - Zionist sacred numbers, like 2 *11 and 3 * 11, why should stay on the war history?
10 - Who benefits from the Middle East to be unsafe?
11 - Who does distribute weapons in the Middle East?
12 - Do not you think, because of Middle East oil fields, jobber governments have come many miles to be not peace in the region?
13 - Who was destroyed Iranian airliner over the Persian Gulf ?
14 - Who is responsible for the famous Persian date Mordad 28 coup in Iran?
15 - Who is responsible for the assassination of Iranian researchers?

I am interested polywell. Unfortunately, until now, I did not work on it.

[Aslan]

..........................................

Iran's recent death penalty, is issued only for major crimes such as manslaughter.

I think the consciousness of all nations has increased.

In my opinion, it is time that the differences among each other should be forgotten all over the world.

[Aslan]

None of the prophets of God, have not learned humans improper behavior or speech. From the perspective of Islam, all followers of all divine prophets are holy. But sometimes people with a distortion of God's commands, justify their inhumanity.

I love religious nonsense, especially when coupled to politics.

Why don't you give us your opinion on the Baha'i prosecution and extermination in Iran Aslan? How many Baha'i women and children have been killed in the name of "god"?

Giorgio..........
Several Baha'i families, live in the neighborhood. They are my neighbors so they are good citizens. Your claim is not well documented.

[Aslan]

I have a thesis that trouble is proportional to the lack of quality information available to the populace. And that with less quality, the populace can be more easily manipulated into extreme acts.

ladajo,,
I like your thesis very much. Do you think, maybe you have lack of real information about Iran?

[MSimon]

http://iran.bahai.us/

[Giorgio]

Giorgio..........
Several Baha'i families, live in the neighborhood. They are my neighbors so they are good citizens. Your claim is not well documented.

I am not asking you if they are good or bad citizens, I am asking to hear your opinion on their prosecution and the prosecution of all the religious minorities in IRAN.

Do you think is correct for someone not to have any legal right because he is not muslim?
Do you think is correct to condemn someone to death because he refuses or he stops to believe in Allah?

Before trying to become the moralist of the world look deep into your country and what your culture imposes on others. Your nation commits sins as every other nation in this world, and some of these sins are outrageous.

That said, maybe is better if we go back to discuss about Polywell.

[Skipjack]

I was not objecting to the death penalty. I think it is way overused in America but I do think it is deserved in some cases. I was objecting to the death penalty for

1. a minor

Careful there again, Msimon...

http://deathpenalty.uslegal.com/minors/ ... or-minors/

I am against the death penalty, because it is irreversible. Once someone has been executed and you find out that he was innocent what can you do? Nothing! If someone was falsly imprisoned, you can at least release him and help him back into life...

I cant imagine a worse fate than being executed for a crime that someone else commited.

[Aslan]

In the laws of every country, there are shortcomings. Some governments punish people because of denying the Holocaust. Some governments punish people because of denying God. Unfortunately in some countries there is death penalty.

It is important that we are going ahead, the rules become more complete and more human rights are respected.

I think the best way to determine right and wrong belief, is to generalize it to the whole world.

Suppose, for example, all people are homosexual. Then the human race becomes extinct. So, The idea is not good.
Let all the world's people are denying God. Then the whole world is depressed. According to psychologists research , life expectancy is low and feelling the real joy is destroyed. So, this idea is not good.
Imagine all the people of the world because of the risk, carry out preemptive attacks. Chaos, destruction and insecurity in the whole world can be raised. So, this idea is wrong.

[Diogenes]

MSimon, agree on all the previous articles, but regarding the last one, I would advise you to not throw stones if you are sitting in a glass house...
The US has the death penalty and people are executed all the time. It is not public and you have not been hanging people for a few decades, but the victims families are present and some other people...
I am not to sure about the guilt of some of those executed either. Like the guy that supposedly burned his family in Texas. Several independent experts cleared him...
Edit: Since you made another post since then, I want to clarify that I am referring to the post about the minor being hung.

You have an argument for getting better jurors, not for opposing the death penalty. My observation of the court system leads me to believe that it is often a massive series of fallacies stacked one atop the other, starting with it's methodology of "Precedent." (Formalized Tu quoque in my opinion)

Apart from getting competent courts and juries, there is nothing wrong with the death penalty. I think it should be expanded to include repeated violent crimes (three strikes, you're out!) and various other cases in which it ought to be used.

[Diogenes]

MSimon, agree on all the previous articles, but regarding the last one, I would advise you to not throw stones if you are sitting in a glass house...
The US has the death penalty and people are executed all the time. It is not public and you have not been hanging people for a few decades, but the victims families are present and some other people...
I am not to sure about the guilt of some of those executed either. Like the guy that supposedly burned his family in Texas. Several independent experts cleared him...
Edit: Since you made another post since then, I want to clarify that I am referring to the post about the minor being hung.

I was not objecting to the death penalty. I think it is way overused in America but I do think it is deserved in some cases. I was objecting to the death penalty for

1. a minor
2. manslaughter

I have no objections to the death penalty for a Minor if the circumstances warrant it. Regarding "manslaughter" I assume you are referring to "accidental" or perhaps "negligent" manslaughter? I would find it surprising that anyone would give someone the death penalty for "accidental" manslaughter, but I could see it for a case of negligency, if the circumstances warrant it. A repeated drunk driver, having killed others before, in my opinion warrants death.

I must say that there is little to be proud of in Illinois - but my current state has abolished the death penalty.

And you are proud of that? Does it not occur to you that your bankrupt and foundering state has a common fallacy between it's fiscal policy and it's social policy? No, of course not. That you see no distinction between fiscal and social policy is something we have been arguing about for years. I know not how much evidence is required, (or if any amount will ever be enough) to convince you that any boundary between one and the other is merely an illusion created by people's desire to perceive a distinction. In reality, they are opposite sides of the same coin.

I just wish the "anti-death-Penalty" types had to PAY the bill for their beliefs.

[ScottL]

I just wish the "anti-death-Penalty" types had to PAY the bill for their beliefs.

I'm still paying the bills last time I checked. If you want to save money in the prison system, turn it into an industry of rehabilitation, not destruction. How logical is it that we put those who have committed petty crimes (drug possession, posession of stolen property, etc.) in with hardened convicts (murders)? We expect them to serve their time and come out golden after 5-10 years? Yeah good luck with that one. I'm willing to bet that if you served 5-10 years in there or even a year, you'd come out vastly different.

Rehabilitation, a better way to spend that same exact money.

[Skipjack]

You have an argument for getting better jurors, not for opposing the death penalty. My observation of the court system leads me to believe that it is often a massive series of fallacies stacked one atop the other, starting with it's methodology of "Precedent." (Formalized Tu quoque in my opinion)

Apart from getting competent courts and juries, there is nothing wrong with the death penalty. I think it should be expanded to include repeated violent crimes (three strikes, you're out!) and various other cases in which it ought to be used.

You are pretty much summing up most of my concerns about the death penalty.
As long as there are humans involved with the justice system starting with the examination of the evidence, to the prosecution, the court, the judges, the jurors, event he defense, mistakes will be made and innocent people will be sentenced for crimes they did not commit.
And for these reasons I am against the death penalty.
Once you can proof to me that the justice system is solid enough for this to never happen, you may have your executions. Until then, no thanks!

[Skipjack]

I'm still paying the bills last time I checked. If you want to save money in the prison system, turn it into an industry of rehabilitation, not destruction. How logical is it that we put those who have committed petty crimes (drug possession, posession of stolen property, etc.) in with hardened convicts (murders)? We exactly expect them to serve their time and come out golden at 5-10 years? Yeah good luck with that one.

Rehabilitation, a better way to spend that same exact money.

Yes, those that have commited petty crimes, or maybe were driven by an unfortunate situation, especially those with no prior criminal history have a chance of being rehabilitated.
But there are certainly people that cant be. Serial killers, pedophiles, serial rapists, professional criminals, etc.
There is very little chance of rehabilitating those.
There certainly is a genetic factor to all that too. People that are bad by nature, if you wish.
The problem with almost all modern justice systems is that they do not distinguish, or not sufficiently distinguish between these types of criminals.
This is why the family father that robs a bank, because he lost everything to a banker, gets the same sentence as a professional criminal, who is doing that as a lifestyle and they end up in the same prison too.
You are very right that this does not help making the former a better person.
Just another flaw in the justice system, not just in the US, but everywhere in the world.

[Diogenes]

In some cases you may be right. It should be said that, maybe your government shows the world news against ours and my governement shows against yours. Perhaps, you only have access to your media, and fortunately, I have both. So maybe I can be more fair to judge.

Firstly, I would like to hear each other comments without criticism.

1 - Who gave money and weapons to the Taliban and Al Qaeda's war against the Russians?

My Understanding is that We did and You did. It was in our mutual interest and\or philosophy to do so.

2 - You know, Hezbollah and Hamas leaders, existed before our leaders?

But they would have been nothing without the infusion of money sent to them.

3 - Who encouraged Saddam to attack Iran?

I do not know that we "encouraged" Saddam to attack Iran, (if this is in fact true, it is known to people of my government that are not willing to say so) but many of us were certainly not bothered by the fact that he did so. We certainly sold him arms and equipment prior to, and possibly during the war.

You may be surprised to learn that many (most?) Americans are not even aware that there was a war, nor do they have the slightest concern about it. On the other hand, there are those such as myself that believe it was a horrible event resulting in the deaths of millions of innocent Iranians and Iraqis. I blame our Second stupidest President, Jimmy Carter.

4 - Who encouraged Saddam to attack Kuwait?

We did not encourage Saddam to attack Kuwait. Through our incompetent Ambassador to Iraq, and as a result of our "wishywashy" President George H.W. Bush, Saddam was led to believe that the United States would not be motivated to act if he should do so.

It was only after the fact of the invasion, and a stern lecturing to President George H.W. Bush by British Prime Minister Margret Thatcher, that Bush decided to subsequently oppose it.

To emphasize the point, we did not "encourage" it, but we also didn't "discourage" it when we should have.

5 - Who is supporting the region's dictatorships?

It depends. To which dictatorship are you referring? We supported some of them, Iran has supported some of them.

6 - Who was the support of Colonel Gaddafi?

The European Union, as nearly as I can tell. We did not so much "support" him, as tolerate him. (till recently.)

7 - How to Hosni Mubarak's support?

Yes, we supported him until very recently. It just goes to show that people should never trust the United States to keep its word when Democrats get into power. They have no sense of Honor, nor any common sense. I think the subsequent fallout in Egypt will eventually make us wish we had not abandoned him.

8 - Who is responsible for the assassination in Iran and 10,000 killed in the last thirty years ?

Which assassination? As for the 10,000 killed, (presumably by dissidents, perhaps with and without foreign influence and money) I would not worry so much about those, as the millions killed under the Mullah regime.

9 - Zionist sacred numbers, like 2 *11 and 3 * 11, why should stay on the war history?

I know nothing of this.

10 - Who benefits from the Middle East to be unsafe?

Possibly the oil traders. (Nations and companies) The Autocracies of the middle east perhaps.

11 - Who does distribute weapons in the Middle East?

Who does not?

12 - Do not you think, because of Middle East oil fields, jobber governments have come many miles to be not peace in the region?

Certainly unrest favors some, and my guess is that they are the oil traders mostly. Likewise, had the middle east no oil, it would certainly be far more peaceful because no one with any money or power would be concerned with it.

13 - Who was destroyed Iranian airliner over the Persian Gulf ?

The Commander and crew of the USS Vincennes; An American Naval ship. It was an admitted mistake. Your country got revenge by shooting down Flight 800 during the Clinton Presidency. (Again, a Democrat President mucks up everything he touches.) Had such a thing occurred while Reagan was President, we would have launched a major war against Iran.

14 - Who is responsible for the famous Persian date Mordad 28 coup in Iran?

If you are referring to the ascension to the throne of Shah Pahlavi, we had our hands in that If I recall properly. All things considered, and with what knowledge I have of the affair, it seems to have been the proper thing to do.

15 - Who is responsible for the assassination of Iranian researchers?

I have heard two theories regarding this.

1. The Israelis. I find this plausible.
2. A renegade branch of the Iranian government. I also find this plausible.

I am pretty certain we (U.S.) didn't do it. We currently don't have the necessary amount of courage or good sense to do such a thing.