Second Worst President in US History.

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:27 am

Since you are not a voter...how does that really matter?

My wife is and I can still donate or otherwise engange myself in politics.

paperburn1 · Post by **paperburn1** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:08 pm

Skipjack wrote:
Since you are not a voter...how does that really matter?
My wife is and I can still donate or otherwise engange myself in politics.

given that this shows why we have a two party system, (at a very simple level) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT0I-sdo ... el&list=UL

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:53 pm

In Austria the system is yet different. Not ideal either, but at least our others parties do have a good share of the seats in the senate. The big parties usually have to seek an understanding with at least one of the others to get a majority.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:23 pm

The two party system forces the governing coalition to assemble before the election. I like that. You know what you are voting for. I also like that the small parties can have a voice and can turn the larger parties over time.

The communist have done quite well in such a system. I believe the libertarians will do even better as they are more in the character of the American people.

Watch November.

williatw · Post by **williatw** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:04 pm

MSimon wrote:The two party system forces the governing coalition to assemble before the election. I like that. You know what you are voting for. I also like that the small parties can have a voice and can turn the larger parties over time.

The communist have done quite well in such a system. I believe the libertarians will do even better as they are more in the character of the American people.

Watch November.

I hope you are right...I am becoming steadily more libertarian the older I get. On issue after issue...gun rights, war on drugs, massive overspending, respect for the constitutional boundaries of gov as envisioned by the founders, even securing our borders, avoiding entangling alliances(as Washington said), I see the libertarians as more in line with my beliefs.
Or even Eisenhower (surely who must have been considered a conservative republican in his day.) warning against the encroaching "military industrial complex" and its threat to our democracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military-i ... al_complex

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Yet our current crop of "conservatives" have no issue with the expanding power and scope of gov as long as it is justified under "law enforcement" (war on drugs) or the military. Torture camps in foreign countries with people held without charge or trial, steadily eroding our constitution at home, all fine as long as it is about keeping us "safe". It is socialist healthcare that is the singular threat. Healthcare>>Socialism>>Communism>>before you know it gulags. Of course most people in most societies throughout human history lived under authoritarian gov(long before people had even thought of communism as a concept), the lack of providing people health care didn't apparently keep them free. And the rational for said authoritarian govs was typically some variation of it was necessary to keep society "safe" to protect it from "subversive elements".

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:21 pm

Will,

Here is what you can do to help:

The Official Beer Of The Revolution

http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/201 ... ution.html

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom—go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!" Samuel Adams

JohnFul · Post by **JohnFul** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:52 am

williatw said

Yet our current crop of "conservatives" have no issue with the expanding power and scope of gov as long as it is justified under "law enforcement" (war on drugs) or the military. Torture camps in foreign countries with people held without charge or trial, steadily eroding our constitution at home, all fine as long as it is about keeping us "safe".

Well, I suppose you could always just extrajudicially assasinate people without any accountability like our Dear Supreme Leader Owebama does ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world ... wanted=all

http://blog.chron.com/texassparkle/2012 ... kill-list/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ju ... st-release

williatw · Post by **williatw** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:19 am

JohnFul wrote:williatw said
Yet our current crop of "conservatives" have no issue with the expanding power and scope of gov as long as it is justified under "law enforcement" (war on drugs) or the military. Torture camps in foreign countries with people held without charge or trial, steadily eroding our constitution at home, all fine as long as it is about keeping us "safe".
Well, I suppose you could always just extrajudicially assasinate people without any accountability like our Dear Supreme Leader Owebama does ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world ... wanted=all

http://blog.chron.com/texassparkle/2012 ... kill-list/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ju ... st-release

You are right I don't think libs respect our constitution any more than conservatives do. Although I believe Obama uses the congressional authorization to fight the war on terror to justify the killing/execution the same way Bush did. Killing enemy combatants is legal, not sure how one legally becomes such in a world where terrorists are not necessarily affiliated with a countries armed forces. It bothers me(a little) but I admit to supporting the use of the drone strikes to kill terrorists. Neither libs or conser have a problem blowing up the size and scope of gov, just for different purposes.

JohnFul · Post by **JohnFul** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:34 am

Skipjack said:

My wife is and I can still donate or otherwise engange myself in politics.

Really? Perhaps you should read

http://www.fec.gov/pages/brochures/foreign.shtml

If a foreign national contributres, they broke the law. If a candidate accepts a contribution from a foreign national, they broke the law as well.

Are you admitting to breaking US laws, or is this just a hypothetical? <This assumes you are a foreign national, and don't have a green card. I personally don't know your situation, but it would be wise to consult the law before you donate.>

J

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:36 am

JohnFul wrote:Skipjack said:

My wife is and I can still donate or otherwise engange myself in politics.
Really? Perhaps you should read

http://www.fec.gov/pages/brochures/foreign.shtml

If a foreign national contributres, they broke the law. If a candidate accepts a contribution from a foreign national, they broke the law as well.

Are you admitting to breaking US laws, or is this just a hypothetical? <This assumes you are a foreign national, and don't have a green card. I personally don't know your situation, but it would be wise to consult the law before you donate.>

J

That is what I thought. The dodge is he gives the money to his wife and she moves the money.

JohnFul · Post by **JohnFul** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:39 am

Msimon said:

That is what I thought. The dodge is he gives the money to his wife and she moves the money.

According to the FEC brochure, that's still illegal.

J

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:36 am

JohnFul wrote:Msimon said:

That is what I thought. The dodge is he gives the money to his wife and she moves the money.
According to the FEC brochure, that's still illegal.

J

If they have a joint account it is hard to prove.

williatw · Post by **williatw** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:46 am

Diogenes wrote: Reagan was the Greatest president since George Washington, and every Democrat President of the 20th Century (and the 21st Century) has been a horrible and massive failure.
They also enslave plenty on purpose. Look at Johnson's "War on Poverty". It made dependent chumps out of everyone it was intended to help.

The only part of this screed I could agree with...Reagan the greatest prez since Washington?! You gotta be f'ing kidding me?! FDR a horrible and massive failure?! My god but letting that go, I agree the war on poverty is/was a failure. I am adamantly opposed to giving able bodied people of working age money to do nothing, even if it isn't their fault they can't find work. As I have said here many times make them work for their benefit be it welfare/food stamps/gov paid housing. Pay them at least minimum wage, but expect work in exchange. Doesn’t show up for work doesn’t get paid period, argue with your empty growling stomach. The problem is that I think the current system is only somewhat because of LBJ incompetence/malignant intent. If you forced them to work what would they do? Expect a large percentage in public works type jobs, the ones where we have billions some say couple trillion bucks worth of infrastructure repair. Sounds like a match made in heaven except for the caveat: Public service workers(and their unions). They would fight tooth and nail to preserve their current overpaid/over benefited jobs and they vote in sufficient numbers to make sure nothing really changes. Think the current systems we have is more the result of that than some insidious plot by libs to enslave people to the gov, frankly don't think most of them are that clever to have thought of that. Of course since we are rapidly running out of money we may yet end up with something like I suggest. When public service unions go on strikes when their wages/benefit/retirement promises start drying up, welfare/food stamp recipients would make great strike breakers, higher them for allot less money. When "the long knives come out" people who are perceived as useful and productive will be fed first people less useful, not so much.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:33 am

williatw,

I think you have nailed it in an elliptical way. We are getting the government we deserve. It is not the government it is the people. The trouble didn't start with FDR. It started with TR. What passes for conservatism these days is actually just Right Wing Progressivism. Balanced by Left Wing Progressivism. Some balance.

And the essence of Progressivism is: "We can make you do what we want because we control the government guns." Maoism to the bone. Just a bit kinder and gentler. For now.

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:03 am

The two party system forces the governing coalition to assemble before the election. I like that. You know what you are voting for. I also like that the small parties can have a voice and can turn the larger parties over time.

Well in Austria, the small parties have turned into leading parties thanks to our system. Imagine the libertarians being their own party and turning into the leading party! Or some other party for that matter.
Having them in separate parties also allows them to switch support for matters at will.

Are you admitting to breaking US laws, or is this just a hypothetical? <This assumes you are a foreign national, and don't have a green card. I personally don't know your situation, but it would be wise to consult the law before you donate.>

Well my wife is a US citizen, so is my son. I am a foreign national who is in the process of getting a green card.
Since I have been living in Austria until now, this was purely hypothetical, but may turn actual soon. Thanks for the link and the information. Very useful.
Anyway, it does not prohibit green card holders from making contributions. So that will work just fine

I can also engage in other non election related activities, which is what I was referring to as well.