Taxes and the GOP walkout of debt ceiling negotiations.

[Diogenes]

Here's an interesting chart that shows the debt ceiling, the total, and who was in control of the House and Senate from Carter to Obama. I see more red on the climb uphill of the famous "debt hockey stick" than blue.

I think both parties are to blame for not putting on the brake earlier and avoid certain follies undertaken in the recent 10-15 years.

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Regan ratcheted up Defense spending. Congress Ratcheted up pork spending. Tip O'Neal was Speaker of the House, and he was a class one @shole! Regan wanted to win the Cold war. He thought the idea that we would accept annihilation by the Russians was utterly stupid. He increased spending on all levels of Defense, including research into SDI mocked by the media as "STAR WARS!". The Democrats argued that since he was spending so much money on Defense, THEY ought to be allowed to spend it on crap. He constantly fought with them to reduce spending by congress, but the only way to get them to agree to the NECESSARY Defense spending was to allow the silly @ss stupid unproductive Sh*t that Democrats ALWAYS waste taxpayer money on. For Reagan's Defense spending increase, we proved to the Soviets that it was impossible for them to keep up with us Financially, and SDI proved to the Soviets that they could not keep up with us Technologically. REAGAN'S spending was a magnificent success. It bought us avoidance of a potentially horrific conflict. The Democrat Congress's Spending? Utter crap and garbage with absolutely no useful result from it.


Your chart is INTENTIONALLY misleading. (Of course it comes from the lyingest liar to ever become "Precedent." ) It completely covers up the story of who was doing what and why they were doing it. It also leaves out the trillion dollars spent on LBJ's "War on Poverty" and other built into the budget stupid Democrat boondoggles that we will all eventually pay through the nose for.

Too bad Obama needed to spend like crazy to catch up for the three conflicts that bled us dry when we that money could have been used for here instead with some saner limit.

What kind of logic is that? Someone spends like an idiot, and the solution is for the next guy to spend like an idiot on speed? Why don't we just shove money into a furnace? Hmmm? It would probably be a better use for it than what Obama and the Democrats are using it for. How many billions did they loan to Brazil to fund offshore drilling which the "Precedent" has banned off the coast of Louisiana? 233,000 jobs were lost because the stupid people of the nation elected a nit wit idiot, and they are all afraid to say anything because no one wants be called a "racist" for pointing out that the nation's first "African American" is a complete moron.

Sure, NOW some of his Wealthy businessmen former supporters are coming forward and admitting the guy is clueless. Welcome to the sanity rubes! What took you so long?

[Diogenes]

I had an evil speculative thought:

Aside from the publicly protrayed arguments about spending and taxation, the Republican leadership may be trying to do enough damage to the U.S. economy (by prolonging and increasing fears of a default) to worsen the President's chances of re-election, but not enough damage the Republican Party gets the blame.

Who knows? It might work. But a dangerous strategy, if true.

Alternatively, Businesses across the country are scared Sh*tless because we have let a retarded moron grab the steering wheel of the bus we are all riding in. Read some financial news from a reputable financial magazine or news paper. (Wall Street Journal e.g.) Nobody wants to hire anyone because Obama keeps upping the costs of employment, and making everyone jittery regarding the possible collapse of the Dollar. Everyone I know in business says the same thing. "I'm not hiring anyone till that silly B@stard is gone! I don't know what he's going to do next and i'm not taking any chances! "

[Maui]

If Obama really did move the goalposts to 400 billion in new taxes, then the Republicans have not walked out on the debt negotiations, they never had anything to walk to.

I agree with this. If true, I'm dumbfounded and disappointed. At one point the "Grand Bargain" was $3 in cuts to every $1 in taxes. It was my impression Obama was ready to go along with this, it was just the House GOP that was holding things up. That's certainly the deal I was hoping for.

What's even weirder is that MSNBC is running this story which says that the unilateral Dem plan put together after the breakdown calls for $2.7T in cuts with no tax increases... but that the GOP is not going to sign on and instead will insist on their unilateral plan of a short term deal.

WTF?

[choff]

Whatever else happens you don't want to default. Best case scenario, you get a credit downgrade and higher interest rates on the debt,(political stupidity tax), after people get angry enough over government service cutbacks a deal to extend the debt limit gets passed a week or two later. Worst case, I know some local Chinese investors who think its a financial armageddon.

[choff]

The other thing is, while some politicians have vowed no new taxes, the political stupidity tax constitutes an increase in old taxes, plus higher mortgage and loan costs, best case scenario. If they can get a deal without new taxes great, but if not they burn the voters either way.

[TDPerk]

which says that the unilateral Dem plan put together after the breakdown calls for $2.7T in cuts with no tax increases... but that the GOP is not going to sign on and instead will insist on their unilateral plan of a short term deal.

WTF?

It think the problem is what is also has in that you didn't mention, raising the debt ceiling by 2.4T immediately. That means Obama can keep on spending just way he has been past the 2012 elections.

The last the thing the Dems and Obama want is to keep on reminding the public of their borrow/spend inclinations three or four more times before the election.

[KitemanSA]

Whatever else happens you don't want to default. Best case scenario, you get a credit downgrade and higher interest rates on the debt,(political stupidity tax), after people get angry enough over government service cutbacks a deal to extend the debt limit gets passed a week or two later. Worst case, I know some local Chinese investors who think its a financial armageddon.

If a family has a shopaholic member, sometimes going into bankruptcy is the only solution to removing the credit card from the addict's hands.

[choff]

Whatever else happens you don't want to default. Best case scenario, you get a credit downgrade and higher interest rates on the debt,(political stupidity tax), after people get angry enough over government service cutbacks a deal to extend the debt limit gets passed a week or two later. Worst case, I know some local Chinese investors who think its a financial armageddon.

If a family has a shopaholic member, sometimes going into bankruptcy is the only solution to removing the credit card from the addict's hands.

In this case you might also bankrupt the whole neighborhood, maybe even the whole town.

[Maui]

I think the problem is what is also has in that you didn't mention, raising the debt ceiling by 2.4T immediately. That means Obama can keep on spending just way he has been past the 2012 elections.

Actually, it sounds like the problem is that over $1T of the "cuts" are savings that will be realized by having ended the wars. In other words, not a cut at all.

<sarcasm>Well, whatever. The important thing is that no matter what happens now, the oil companies can keep their subsidies. Yay!</sarcasm>

[Maui]

Obama's speech was perfect. Absolutely perfect.

[Maui]

Boehner's was okay. Certainly seemed more mis-leading to me that Obama's.

My personal favorite Boehner's his claim that Cut, Cap and Balance passed with bi-partisan support... (nevermind that more republicans voted against it than democrats voted for it or that it was voted down in the Senate).

[KitemanSA]

Whatever else happens you don't want to default. Best case scenario, you get a credit downgrade and higher interest rates on the debt,(political stupidity tax), after people get angry enough over government service cutbacks a deal to extend the debt limit gets passed a week or two later. Worst case, I know some local Chinese investors who think its a financial armageddon.

If a family has a shopaholic member, sometimes going into bankruptcy is the only solution to removing the credit card from the addict's hands.

In this case you might also bankrupt the whole neighborhood, maybe even the whole town.

Then the town shouldn't have enabled the shopaholic.

[Diogenes]

Obama's speech was perfect. Absolutely perfect.

He certainly reads well. At least he learned SOMETHING useful in school.

[Diogenes]

Whatever else happens you don't want to default. Best case scenario, you get a credit downgrade and higher interest rates on the debt,(political stupidity tax), after people get angry enough over government service cutbacks a deal to extend the debt limit gets passed a week or two later. Worst case, I know some local Chinese investors who think its a financial armageddon.

Did anyone ever doubt that junkie style borrowing and reckless spending would eventually come to this?

[choff]

One thing about the best case scenario with higher interest rates, bank profits up, the 'talent' in the CEO's office get the extra half million bonus for adding value to share prices, taxpayer loses.