Independent Firearm Owners of America - legalize the weed

[MSimon]

If the banks can't be stopped from laundering and the intel org's from smuggling, then legalization is also doomed, since as you say, these groups plus drug cartels promote prohibition.

Legalize one drug, and they will create demand for another and push the prohibition of that new drug, they will fight legalization every step of the way.

Well of course. Did you expect these criminals to go down easy?

The way to do it is to discredit the whole notion of prohibition. You start with the easiest problem first. Then proceed on to the more demonic drugs. Like alcohol. Oh. wait. That has already been through the cycle. Well one less to deal with.

[MSimon]

Equality of enforcement would be the fastest way to destroy prohibition according to this former drug agent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmgeCeGk--I

He relates how he was specifically told "it is not going to happen". Nope. The way to do it is to discredit prohibition. Prove it accomplishes the opposite of what its proponents claim. It doesn't curtail drugs, it spreads them.

[choff]

A large segment of the population is already of the opinion that prohibition is discredited, but opinions don't matter to drug lords, money does. For them, a plebisite on legalization and public opinion is something you buy and sell, or intimidate.

Look at the police raids on medical marijuana shops even after they get approved. If the police finally get called off then the grow rippers will just take over from them. If, as you say, weed equals its weight in gold do you honestly believe the drug kingpins would allow a price devaluation.

If legalization is in fact possible under the weight of all that criminal force, then it should also be true that banks, intel agents and bent judges, politicians and police at the top levels can be brought down.

[MSimon]

For them, a plebisite on legalization and public opinion is something you buy and sell, or intimidate.

I take it then that America is still suffering under alcohol prohibition and that no state will be legalizing pot this Nov.

Good to know.

Is the Kennedy family still running rum?

[choff]

For them, a plebisite on legalization and public opinion is something you buy and sell, or intimidate.

I take it then that America is still suffering under alcohol prohibition and that no state will be legalizing pot this Nov.

Good to know.

Is the Kennedy family still running rum?

No, but after prohibition on alcohol ended they switched to cannibis, and suddenly you had a new problem. Dispense with cannibis prohibition, they'll create a new drug epidemic and a new prohibition on that.

The dog and pony show goes on until you address the source of both prohibition and new illicit drugs.

The head of HSBC said he didn't realize his bank was laundering drug money, which meant he knew absolutely nothing of his companies history. The company had to pay a few hundred million fine, and since they just create the money by fiat and a check it means nothing. We have his word it won't happen again.

Let's say some 16 year old gets busted selling crack outside your local kindergarten. He says he didn't know it was crack, he's willing to write a check for $50 bucks in fine, and you have his word as a gentlemen it won't happen again, would that work? The head of HSBC should be treated the same as the 16 year old at the very least.

[choff]

Meet Lord Green.

http://www.madcowprod.com/2012/07/27/hs ... -big-jail/

[Diogenes]

Concentrate resources on money laundering and financing by banks, and arrest/impeach those politicians who block legitimate police efforts. Shut down the intel sections that transport the drugs.

It is my opinion that the politicians in Narco-States will not cooperate with such an effort, and it will work as well as "Diplomacy" always seems to work, which means it won't.

Mainly, the pro and anti legalization camps have to stop battering each other and realize they're being played by the puppet masters at the top. Best if they don't agree with each other, that would give the big shots a target to formulate counter strategy against. Pro and Anti have to become the antisynthesis since the top players are Hegelists. If you take them down, you'll also be nailing the same crooks that have caused the financial crisis, it's the top of the 0.1%, social justice via real justice.

I personally regard the entire Democrat party as a sort of criminal association. They will obstruct any attempts to interfere with their boys. The illegal drug running Kennedys became a force in that party for a reason. Nobody objected to their sleaze because it is resembles the rest of them so well.

[choff]

There's plenty of evidence against both the Bushes and the Clintons so this is what you Americans would call a bipartisan issue.

I take it both Diogenes and MSimon agree that my approach to drug policing is wrong, which means this time they agree with each other on drug policing!

If nothing else, that's a real achievement.

[MSimon]

There's plenty of evidence against both the Bushes and the Clintons so this is what you Americans would call a bipartisan issue.

I take it both Diogenes and MSimon agree that my approach to drug policing is wrong, which means this time they agree with each other on drug policing!

If nothing else, that's a real achievement.

Menken explained D's position:

"Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy."

It is a very old strain in American politics. It is finally starting to lose adherents. Only took 3 or 4 hundred years.

It will never totally die out though. Humans (most of them anyway) are designed to live in fear. I missed out on that part of humanness. My apologies to all those shaking in their boots.

"Fear will keep the star systems in line" - maybe - but it doesn't work on me. One hundred of the last twenty predicted disasters never came to pass.

Choff is depending on this:

Let me conclude, and again this is my prediction -- I will tell you I don't think it is subject to opinion. Just look at it. Just take a look at what has happened now and what will happen. I will tell you how inexorable it is. If we get together here in the year 2005, I will bet you that it is as likely as not that the possession of marijuana may not be criminal in this state. But the manufacture, sale, and possession of tobacco will be, and why? Because we love this idea of prohibitions, we can't live without them. They are our very favorite thing because we know how to solve difficult, social, economic, and medical problems -- a new criminal law with harsher penalties in every category for everybody.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/history/whiteb1.htm

He may have a point.

America was supposed to be better than that. And it was until Progressive thought infected 90% of the country. Saul predicted exactly what love of government would do to the Israelites. Too bad no one reads that stuff any more.

We have two government parties in America. The fight is not about government. Just about what aspects of people's lives government will control.

[choff]

Mainly from growing up around druggies and alki's and watching it all degenerate into stupid gang violence I oppose the introduction of more stupid vices, apart from that, mostly I believe in equal justice for all.

A bank laundered $379 Billion over 6 years and nobody did a minute of jail time for it. Some guy gets his door kicked in at 3 am and his dog gets shot because his neighbour smelled a joint, that's just plain wrong.

If people weren't so egotistical they'd figure out that they do drugs because they were mind controlled into it, we have puppet masters.

[MSimon]

Mainly from growing up around druggies and alki's and watching it all degenerate into stupid gang violence I oppose the introduction of more stupid vices, apart from that, mostly I believe in equal justice for all.

A bank laundered $379 Billion over 6 years and nobody did a minute of jail time for it. Some guy gets his door kicked in at 3 am and his dog gets shot because his neighbour smelled a joint, that's just plain wrong.

If people weren't so egotistical they'd figure out that they do drugs because they were mind controlled into it, we have puppet masters.

Mainly from growing up around druggies and alki's and watching it all degenerate into stupid gang violence I oppose the introduction of more stupid vices, apart from that, mostly I believe in equal justice for all.

The vices have already been introduced. And prohibition is the very best vector for spreading them. In fact the "vices" were quite legal for a very long time and didn't spread until prohibition was introduced.

If people weren't so egotistical they'd figure out that they do drugs because they were mind controlled into it, we have puppet masters.

Are you saying that alcohol use wouldn't be so prevalent if there were no "puppet masters"? I don't agree.

The puppets are those who believe:

"...we know how to solve difficult, social, economic, and medical problems -- a new criminal law with harsher penalties in every category for everybody."

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/history/whiteb1.htm

It is amazing that despite repeated failures in history that people can be conned into prohibitions.

D does believe prohibition is working in China. But if it was failing would the Communist Government ever let those facts out?

Well what do you know?

WSJ - Opium Rebounds on China Demand

So I guess prohibition doesn't work in China either.

[choff]

Mainly, the same guys that launder the drug money are the same guys that create the misery that drives people to drugs.

The banks finance the wars that create the PTSD, same way they inflate then deflate the economy in order to enslave people financially and create family breakdown, (again more misery). They finance the politicians that prohibit the drugs, they finance the drug dealers that sell the drugs.

If you believe the old phrase, 'the love for money is the root of all evil' then the best way to end the misery is through the enforcement of financial regulations, that's also why I support monetary reform. Get the creation and control of the currency out of the hands of the banks and back into the elected government.

[Diogenes]

There's plenty of evidence against both the Bushes and the Clintons so this is what you Americans would call a bipartisan issue.

I take it both Diogenes and MSimon agree that my approach to drug policing is wrong, which means this time they agree with each other on drug policing!

If nothing else, that's a real achievement.

Menken explained D's position:

"Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy."

That is your strawman talking. I don't mind people being happy at all, but when their happiness comes at the price of other people's suffering, then they have crossed the line. Libertarians simply refuse to acknowledge that anyone gets hurt.

It is a very old strain in American politics. It is finally starting to lose adherents. Only took 3 or 4 hundred years.

Yes, the population of today is far more serious and intelligent than are previous generations. It's not as if the idiot generation is behaving like fools or anything.

It will never totally die out though. Humans (most of them anyway) are designed to live in fear. I missed out on that part of humanness. My apologies to all those shaking in their boots.

Fools rush in where Angels fear to tread. Fear is an evolved trait because those without it usually ended up as potential Darwin award winners.

"Fear will keep the star systems in line" - maybe - but it doesn't work on me. One hundred of the last twenty predicted disasters never came to pass.

You are really quoting a Fantasy movie in support of your argument?

[Diogenes]

Mainly from growing up around druggies and alki's and watching it all degenerate into stupid gang violence I oppose the introduction of more stupid vices, apart from that, mostly I believe in equal justice for all.

A bank laundered $379 Billion over 6 years and nobody did a minute of jail time for it. Some guy gets his door kicked in at 3 am and his dog gets shot because his neighbour smelled a joint, that's just plain wrong.

If people weren't so egotistical they'd figure out that they do drugs because they were mind controlled into it, we have puppet masters.

Mainly from growing up around druggies and alki's and watching it all degenerate into stupid gang violence I oppose the introduction of more stupid vices, apart from that, mostly I believe in equal justice for all.

The vices have already been introduced. And prohibition is the very best vector for spreading them. In fact the "vices" were quite legal for a very long time and didn't spread until prohibition was introduced.

Absolutely! Just take tobacco for example. Because it was completely prohibited when it was first discovered, it spread all over Europe and America. If they had only allowed it to remain legal, it never would have created so many addicts.

Ever since we legalized tobacco around 1900, the numbers of addicts just continued to plunge until by the 1960s, we had wiped out tobacco addiction. Nobody uses the drug any more, and it's all thanks to legalization!

If people weren't so egotistical they'd figure out that they do drugs because they were mind controlled into it, we have puppet masters.

Are you saying that alcohol use wouldn't be so prevalent if there were no "puppet masters"? I don't agree.

The puppets are those who believe:

"...we know how to solve difficult, social, economic, and medical problems -- a new criminal law with harsher penalties in every category for everybody."

It's not a question of knowing how to solve them, we have plenty of evidence regarding what will make them worse. The last thing we need to make any problem better is more drug addicts. (Unless the problem is having too many people, and insufficient ruling tyranny. )

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/history/whiteb1.htm

It is amazing that despite repeated failures in history that people can be conned into prohibitions.

It's amazing that someone can call one of the most successful programs in history a failure, and instead want to emulate a country in which Drug addiction killed hundreds of millions of people, and is responsible for triggering mass murder.

D does believe prohibition is working in China. But if it was failing would the Communist Government ever let those facts out?

???? Where do you come up with these notions of what "D" believes? I said legalization is what brought the communists to China. Drugs created economic/social chaos and allowed the country to descend into anarchy. The Communists were simply the first with sufficient power to take advantage of it, and yeah, they wiped out drug addicts when Mao came to power. Don't know what the current state of affairs is in China.

Well what do you know?


WSJ - Opium Rebounds on China Demand

So I guess prohibition doesn't work in China either.

It worked under Mao. I guess the current regime just isn't doing it right, or perhaps they are tolerating it intentionally. Don't know, don't care.

How's prohibition working out for Singapore?

Well waddaya know! It seems to be working pretty well.

[choff]

Singapore has always had a reputation of being very easy to police, a small island with one bridge in and out, no place for a criminal to hide.

I'll add that the same guys in charge of the banking system control financing for the major media outlets, entertainment industry, fashion industry, major universities(especially corrupting economics), even charitable trusts that fund historians, and especially, behavioral research institutions.

There's a book out called Retirement Heist, basically in 2000 there was enough money in the pension system for everyone in the US to retire and live in comfort to the age of 99, the people minding the system stole the lot, now the elderly have to work till they drop.

Mind control is a very real thing, look at the way nobody reacts to drug money laundering by the banks. The police would never think to arrest them, they wear business suits after all.