Does Anybody Argue That Drug Use Isn't Bad For You

[MSimon]

. . .yet you think the reason why many others you knew didn't use drugs was because drugs were illegal.

Obviously so. To doubt this requires an idiot.

And yet in the places that have so far nationally decriminalized drugs, use has gone down. Even in cases like cannabis where the governments in question provide no rehabilitation effort.

You have to wonder what kind of people (idiots?) are immune to such evidence? We are fortunate to be living in an age where such immunities are on the decline.

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One should also keep in mind the vested interests at work. The banking industry charges quite a premium to turn hot money into legal money. On the order of 30%. Many predict a banking collapse with the end of prohibition.

One of them is Catherine Austin Fitts. You can read about her findings as a HUD Secretary at:

http://classicalvalues.com/2011/11/why- ... ohibition/

[ladajo]

And yet in the places that have so far nationally decriminalized drugs, use has gone down.

Really?

Or are you misrepresenting again?

Are you counting drug tourism? Are you counting changes in reporting and tracking?

What are you counting?

[paperburn1]

And then you have to ask yourself. What kind of government suppresses research findings in order to continue a war on a segment of its population?

Is that the kind of government you want?

On this page, we often have fans linking us to "scientific proof" that cannabinoids cure cancer. I have always been incredibly skeptical of these claims. There have been hundreds of studies done on cannabinoids and there are many more ongoing; it's certainly a very interesting field of study. But to say this has been "proven" is patently absurd once you examine the evidence and the tests that have been done, and no Youtube video changes that

In this article from Cancer Research UK, Kat Arney goes into great detail discussing the available evidence, what has been shown so far and what is currently being tested.

There are several headings:
What are cannabinoids and how do they work?
Can cannabinoids treat cancer? (including lab research, clinical research and unanswered questions)
Can cannabis prevent or cause cancer?
What about controlling cancer symptoms such as pain or sickness?
Is Cancer Research UK investigating cannabinoids?
It’s natural so it must be better, right?
“Have you seen this video? This guy says cannabis cures cancer!”
“It’s all a big conspiracy – you don’t want people to be cured!”
“What’s the harm? There’s nothing to lose.”
“Big Pharma can’t patent it so they’re not interested.”
“Why don’t you campaign for cannabis to be legalized?”

All these and more are answered in the following article, and I seriously recommend that anyone interested takes a look. She references all the journal articles she discusses, making it easy to look up the evidence yourself.

Read the article here: http://bit.ly/TERft0

[GIThruster]

Or are you misrepresenting again?

Seems obvious. He has discredited himself so many times with bullshit factoid posts his posts aren't even worth reading. But we should not be surprised. Anyone who knows anything about the drug culture knows that one of the unfortunate consequences of being a druggie is, you cannot be trusted in any way. Literally EVERYONE in the drug culture is untrustworthy. How then are we going to treat simon as if his posts were worth anything? And this is one of the hidden costs of drugs--you sacrifice all integrity and pretence thereof.

[ladajo]

@paperburn, thanks for the link.

[williatw]

Obviously so. To doubt this requires an idiot.

So I didn't/don't use heroin/crack/crystal meth because it was illegal? Funny, because I think I don't use it because only a self-destructive moron would want to put something like that into their body. If I didn't care to much about that, dont think I would be particularly concerned about it being illegal. But for the law half of us here would be heroin/opium addicts?

You're again avoiding the real issue, which is not these harder drugs but Cannabis. It's entirely possible people avoid Meth because they know how dangerous is it, though we can be sure that many if not most avoid it because it is illegal. Cannabis is not the same sort of dangerous. The vast majority avoid it because it is illegal. Those who have tried it are only 9% of the populous whereas almost everyone has tried alcohol. There are no verbal gymnastics that are going to get you around these facts.

Prohibition works.

Thought the true figures for people who had tried cannabis were 42% not 9%. But never mind that, you have obviously rationalized a reason for continuing the failed war on drugs by convincing yourself but for the law half/nearly all of us would be "druggies". The simple fact is that the money is drying up, you will simply not be able to sustain it for too many more decades, and other countries are turning against the idea. It is Latin America and Mexico which are bearing the brunt of the war; it is not upper middle class neighborhoods in America getting shot up. They will increasingly look to a more European model of decriminalization and treatment; there is nothing you can really do about that, you are losing the war on public support there and here. In another 15-20 yrs the people who have an emotional investment in the "war on drugs" will be gone, and the war on drugs with them.

[GIThruster]

. . .there is nothing you can really do about that, you are losing the war on public support there and here. In another 15-20 yrs the people who have an emotional investment in the "war on drugs" will be gone, and the war on drugs with them.

You may well be right and this is the direction Western Civilization is headed. It's entirely possible liberty will swallow hole all good things that have come from our proud heritage in the West, just as it's entirely possible islamo-fascism will win out and everyone will one day be Muslim. It's possible.

It's also possible that we will start to generate real science data on psychosis as results of using hallucinogens on such a large scale and be forced to come to our senses. It's possible people will tabulate, record and report the real costs of recreational drug use and we'll see much stronger efforts to make them unobtainable. The fact we can't stop drugs from entering prisons is never an excuse to make them available. Your reasoning here is obviously deficient. The problem for now however is, that we have the results of the hippy generation who taught us as kids that Cannabis was safe and fun, when what they should have done was taught us it causes hallucinations, psychosis, loss of ambition, lethargy, capriciousness, duplicity, deviousness, deceitfulness, and criminality. We're still living down the consequences of that generation's damage done the more respectable and responsible portions of society.

[williatw]

The problem for now however is, that we have the results of the hippy generation who taught us as kids that Cannabis was safe and fun, when what they should have done was taught us it causes hallucinations, psychosis, loss of ambition, lethargy, capriciousness, duplicity, deviousness, deceitfulness, and criminality. We're still living down the consequences of that generation's damage done the more respectable and responsible portions of society.

This obsessive fixation borderline pathological animosity you have to "pop smoking hippies" is what I mean by your emotional investment in the war on drugs. Legalizing/decriminalizing means to you those hippies you hate so much have won, something you can't abide no matter what the cost of the war on drugs. We get it psychoactive substances tend to be harmful, doesn't mean the jailing brutalizing corrupting war on drugs is a good idea. As you point out you can't even stop the flow of drugs into prisons, if that doesn't show what a joke the war on drugs is, what more do you need. Prescription drug abuse causes more deaths than pot does easily. Alcohol has the same if not greater negative consequences to abuse, didn't make prohibition a good idea. Cigarettes kill people worldwide by the millions, doesn't mean a "war on tobacco” is a good idea.

[GIThruster]

Please don't put quotation marks around your own words in order to pass them off as mine. I want to try to treat your position and you with some respect but I can't do that if you continue in every post to misrepresent me, my position and the facts.

Thus far, you're a pretty good proof of concept to my point that dopers are not trustworthy. With the way you're flailing about, casting vacuous charges and misrepresenting others, its pretty obvious this is a passionate issue for you. This is almost funny and certainly ironic: you're posting in a thread entitled "Does Anybody Argue That Drug Use Isn't Bad For You" and you post " We get it psychoactive substances tend to be harmful" and yet portray me as the guy beating some agenda driven drum. I've yet to start a thread here on drug abuse or force-feed my druggie agenda on others in hundreds of different threads. I'm just sharing my experiences where appropriate: using drugs makes people crazy and untrustworthy; pretty much just like you, William.

Stop misrepresenting me, my positions and the facts. You have already agreed that everyone knows drug abuse is bad for you. So why do you keep posting?

[williatw]

Please don't put quotation marks around your own words in order to pass them off as mine. I want to try to treat your position and you with some respect but I can't do that if you continue in every post to misrepresent me, my position and the facts.

Thus far, you're a pretty good proof of concept to my point that dopers are not trustworthy. With the way you're flailing about, casting vacuous charges and misrepresenting others, its pretty obvious this is a passionate issue for you. This is almost funny and certainly ironic: you're posting in a thread entitled "Does Anybody Argue That Drug Use Isn't Bad For You" and you post " We get it psychoactive substances tend to be harmful" and yet portray me as the guy beating some agenda driven drum. I've yet to start a thread here on drug abuse or force-feed my druggie agenda on others in hundreds of different threads. I'm just sharing my experiences where appropriate: using drugs makes people crazy and untrustworthy; pretty much just like you, William.

Stop misrepresenting me, my positions and the facts. You have already agreed that everyone knows drug abuse is bad for you. So why do you keep posting?

Put quotes around my words and pass them off as yours?! Your kidding right? What I quoted in the previous post was your words. And no I am not now or do I intend to be a "druggie" legalized or not, I drink beer that's about it. It's the war on drugs I have a beef about, not disputing that drugs are harmful, just don't like the current "remedy".

[GIThruster]

Nowhere ever in these boards or anywhere else have I ever typed or used the words you have quoted me as using. Nowhere. And given your propensity to lie, claiming you don't use drugs means absolutely nothing.

[Stubby]

Wow talk about desperation and flailing about

I think GiT is refering to "pot smoking hippies".

Whilst true he never actually used those words anywhere in this forum, maybe he could explain how "pot smoking hippies" differs from "the hippy generation who taught us as kids that Cannabis was safe"

how would hippies assert pot was safe unless they used it?

How does it misrepresent his position?


And to make a fine point of it, he is assuming you are attributing the "pot smoking hippies" to him when you don't explicitly say so.

[GIThruster]

Put quotes around my words and pass them off as yours?! Your kidding right? What I quoted in the previous post was your words.

In fact, he was not quoting. He was writing his own words and pretending they were mine, and then lying about the fact they were his words and again claiming he was quoting.

What's your problem, Stubby? Do you need someone to explain to you what the concept of "quote" entails? He was not quoting, and quotation marks NEVER belong around a paraphrase. He was putting quotes around his own words and lying about it afterward.

Typical druggies. . .dopers have no honor.

[williatw]

Nowhere ever in these boards or anywhere else have I ever typed or used the words you have quoted me as using. Nowhere. And given your propensity to lie, claiming you don't use drugs means absolutely nothing.

Oh I get it, you meant the quotation marks I did put around pot smoking hippies, thought you meant the part of your answer I quoted under your name. Okay I should not have put quotation marks around the former. Sorry for that, but I still don't get why you think anyone who thinks the war on drugs is a failure is a drug user.

[GIThruster]

. . .I still don't get why you think anyone who thinks the war on drugs is a failure is a drug user.

I don't think that. I personally know several people who do not use drugs, including my twin brother, who mistakenly believe the war on drugs is a failure; because they don't understand the point behind a mitigating action or what our society would look like without the war on drugs.

The reason I think it's very likely that you use drugs William, is your constant misrepresentation of those who you do not agree with, and your constant misrepresentation of the salient facts. People who argue this way have no scruples and that is a common side effect of using drugs.