A Green Wants to Reduce the Numbr of Humans on Earth

[Nanos]

What is villagerism ?

(Myself, I quite like the idea of looking at small new towns, rather than big new cities, on the basis that a small area is easier to commute through, and your never far from the countryside.)


> No one is stuck in America except those who want to be.

I'm not sure that is true.

The average person, with family, friends and good health, yes they probably can get themselves out of povety with hard work.

But I reckon nowdays, there are many less than average folk, little family, few friends, poor health.

The unequality seems more apparent these days, I'm reminded of when I was at college (I went 3 years in a row to try and get qualifed to g to university, but each year some finanical crisis would hit requiring me to work all hours and thus not have enough time for college.) there was two really bright fellows (incidently from Afganistan) who would have made excellent workers, but their finanical situation was such that they had to give up study, one ended up selling carpets, and one as a CCTV operator. Meanwhile, the vast majority of the class cheated! to get their university place, and after bumping into one of them a few years later, because of the drop in IT work, even though the person got a degree, they went back to being a builder as they could make a nice living employing cheap illegal Polish builders at $1 an hour..

So I saw firsthand how the people you think are really going to make it, are not necessarly going to find it all that possible, and those prepaired to lie and cheat, well, they can milk the system..


A little while ago I thought it was a good idea to get a welding qualifcation, always lots of jobs for welders advertised.. except there isn't a single college/etc. in the whole of London that does a course anymore! no problem if I want to learn flower arranging...

Sure I can buy a welder and learn myself, but increasingly unless you have paper qualifcations (A friend of mine just prints whatever qualifcation the job requires..) then it doesn't matter how many decades of experience you have.

(Born out also in my experience going for IT jobs where I have no degree 'Though I wrote, 'I have a degree of understanding of computers'' and 20 years programming experience counted for nothing trying to get a bottom of the ladder trainee job! though the interviewer at the end did ask me what was my degree in again..)

Meanwhile, I hear countless times from people about how they got their job by lying about their skills and ability.

I refuse to go that line myself.


I see that if I can provide that family and friends environment to people, that it can go a long way to readdressing the balance and reward the decent folk for a change for their hard work.

[MSimon]

Nanos,

I worked my way up from bench technician to aerospace engineer. In America. Without benefit of a degree. While partying just as hard as my mates. The difference between me and them is I brought study materials to the party. I was considered a bit strange. But I advanced and my mates - not so much.

====

It sounds to me that the difficulties where you live are caused by the zoning boards. As I would have predicted.

Efficient cites grow like plants. In response to local conditions. Technocratic planning is just another version of the disease.

I know letting people do what they think is best goes against 200 years of European thought. Americans are much more amenable to such ideas although we too have our zoning boards.

[djolds1]

dj,

America has avoided the worst features of urbanization by inventing the suburbs.

My apologies. I was working with very abstract metaphor.

The world-city isn't a city per se. Its the core cosmopolitan zone of a civilization. In antiquity and all other pre-industrial societies it needed to be concentrated, as in the single city of Rome. For the West of today, the world-city would probably be the US Bicoastal region, the Boswash Corridor (also called Megalopolis by some) and its lesser sibling on the West coast.

The cosmopolitan core of culture, learning, politics, commerce, and effete intellectual snobbery. It can flower beautifully for a time, but inevitably rots and dies unwilling to defend itself.

In addition in America "shall issue" (concealed fire arms permits) is now the rule in 39 states and may issue the rule in 8 more.

There is a nice graphic of the evolution of those laws in the 50 states over the last 20 years or so here:

http://www.classicalvalues.com/archives ... ot_bi.html

Decent odds that the "masculine" faction wins out in the West, as it did in Rome. But that only slows the collapse some.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy

American culture is so different from that of the rest of the world that it is hard to imagine. We are not a people of blood but of an idea. This is so different from the experience of the rest of the world that most non-Americans can't get their arms around it.

So far lots of cultures have looked at America and seen softness and weakness. They get ideas. So far we have whipped every one who has tried. I don't think that era is quite over.

I do think that Europe falls into the rhythm you describe.

The US is part of the West. The better comparison IMO is the US as Rome and the EU as Greece. The younger & culturally slightly cruder ruling region and the older & more cultured supporting region.

Let me add that rapid technological change (something you approve of) leads to lots of volatility.

So the question is: what do you want? In America we have chosen change.

The human animal is naturally conservative. It doesn't really like change. Periods of rapid change are highly productive, but historically they have also been short and self-limiting.

Tho my definition of "short" in the context of societal evolution is 100-300 years.

Yes, I do like rapid scientific progress and technological refinement, but IMO its not a phase that lasts in the life cycle of any civilization. This has been a focus of thought for me for some years.

BTW the global warming stupidity is about over in America. I get around a lot of different sites. Two years ago the warmists were in ascendancy. Now it is more balance with the warmists somewhat under half. Another couple of cold winters and late springs and it will be over in America.

A year ago I would post anti-warmist science and I would get strong arguments. Now a days hardly a peep.

Add in the new Green ethos "Buy a tank of ethanol, starve a child" and even the warmists are becoming less sure of their solutions if not of their beliefs.

They switched from Global Cooling to Global Warming quite effectively c. 1990 or so. And IMO the cultural-commercial elite (called Transnational Progressives) are moving from atheist humanism to an actual religious creed of Gaian spiritualism. The Deep Green commitment among the elite will continue to regenerate itself IMO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnatio ... gressivism

One of the things that makes income inequality less of a problem in America is that we believe that a good idea well executed can shift your position in the class structure. A bad idea poorly executed and you get another cause for shifts in who the members of a particular class are.

And it is not just a belief. Statistics show (for what ever they are worth) that it happens. No one is stuck in America except those who want to be.

My perspective takes the long view. Centuries of cultural evolution. The changes I'm citing won't even _start_ to kick in until the end of this century. But IMO they are highly probable.

Duane

[Nanos]

Perhaps the only thing Technocracy needs to do is to be the zoning board, and let everyone else do their thing.

[MSimon]

DJ,

I note you live PA. You must be totally aware of the bicoastal elites. I will say no more.

[MSimon]

Perhaps the only thing Technocracy needs to do is to be the zoning board, and let everyone else do their thing.

Nanos,

I think a better avenue is to design what Bucky Fuller called an autonomous dwelling unit.

A package that can be dropped on site and erected in a day.

Design the "tools" that will move things in the direction you want. Then let individuals use them as they see fit.

Or maybe a huge domed space where individuals can use the interior as they see fit. That eliminates heating and cooling costs. So people can build "shacks" as they see fit.

In fact I would look deeply into Bucky's stuff before even heading in any direction.

As to a zoning board. The problem is even if they start out approving everything power goes to people's heads.

There are certain heuristics you can use for your simulations. Like a maximum of one hour of travel every day.

[pstudier]

What is villagerism ?

A villager is a term for someone who wants to live in a small isolated village where he can know everyone who has any influence in his life. A key text in this philosophy is Small is Beautiful, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_Is_Beautiful . Some people use the term watermelon, which is green on the outside but commie pink inside. However, villagers practice a local type of socialism unlike the Soviet Union. They are more like the Khmer Rouge. They use environmentalism to justify their goals, but that localism is their real agenda.

[MSimon]

I'm not sure the Khmer Rouge is a good advertising point for the concept.

[djolds1]

DJ,

I note you live PA. You must be totally aware of the bicoastal elites. I will say no more.

The area I live in is actually quite rural, beyond the peripheries of the Philadelphia & BWI urban sprawls. This is Amish Hell, PA.

Duane

[pstudier]

I'm not sure the Khmer Rouge is a good advertising point for the concept.

The Khmer Rouge were very bad villagers. The Amish are good villagers. They live their philosophy, but they don't inflict it on others.

[djolds1]

I'm not sure the Khmer Rouge is a good advertising point for the concept.

The Khmer Rouge were very bad villagers. The Amish are good villagers. They live their philosophy, but they don't inflict it on others.

Say that after being stuck in a line of cars behind a buggy for the nth time.

Duane

[bcglorf]

I'm not sure the Khmer Rouge is a good advertising point for the concept.

The Khmer Rouge were very bad villagers. The Amish are good villagers. They live their philosophy, but they don't inflict it on others.

Seems like we have an understatement contest going.

[Nanos]

I am a great fan of some of Buckys ideas and approaches

> I think a better avenue is to design what Bucky Fuller called
> an autonomous dwelling unit.
>
> A package that can be dropped on site and erected in a day.

I could see that being developed in the future.

For now, what is within our capability and budget range in the UK is some old fashioned buildings, though I would like to modernise them a bit and go for a waterproof concrete dome approach to reduce costs substantially, and earth sheltered to please the planners, reduce heating/cooling costs and improve its defensive ability. (Crime is rather epidemic here, so its about time we stopped building all these homes with easy to break windows!)


> Design the "tools" that will move things in the direction you want.
> Then let individuals use them as they see fit.

Very much the philosophy I had in mind, as I want to reduce the admin/red tape/beauracy and associated costs to a minumn level.

Yet I do also see that many issues we have today are down to poor planning, we have let things evolve, and they have grown like topsy. Where as a bit of thought beforehand to a few key aspects, could see for example, having straight roads rather than ones with lots of bends in them.


> Or maybe a huge domed space where individuals can use the interior
> as they see fit. That eliminates heating and cooling costs. So people
> can build "shacks" as they see fit.

The UK planners are quite restrictive on what you can build, so some ideas have to be curtailed as to what one can do within the allowed framework. (Eg. A home must have at least one window, but you could perhaps install a concrete shutter to cover your window when you are out/etc. as I'd much rather not have any windows, but have to work within what I'm allowed to do.)

Once we have a populated village/town, then we can begin looking at other approaches when we have the manpower and resources to do so beyond what I can do on my own.

[Average Joe]

The US is part of the West. The better comparison IMO is the US as Rome and the EU as Greece. The younger & culturally slightly cruder ruling region and the older & more cultured supporting region.

The difference is the influence of basic Judeo/Christian values, lived authentically.

The Khmer Rouge were very bad villagers. The Amish are good villagers. They live their philosophy, but they don't inflict it on others.

The difference is the influence of basic Judeo/Christian values, lived authentically.

[TallDave]

My perspective takes the long view. Centuries of cultural evolution.

The long view is probably unknowable beyond ~50 years (and maybe a lot less than that) barring a technological collapse.

The Singularity is near.