Compartmentalizing

[Diogenes]

The first thing we do is to teach people that murder is bad.

Behaviourism at its "best".
People already know FROM BIRTH that killing other people is bad. It is in our genes!
That does not prevent people from killing other people. Why? In part the answer is again in our genes. The "warrior gene" e.g.. But not just that. Ever human has a certain limit at which he will become a killer. The question is where is that threshold?
Some people have a higher and others have a lower threshold. This is again determined to a large extent by our genes. There is also some nurture, but believing in a religion wont do much to stop these people. Especially if it is a religion that only requires you to repent your sind to find forgiveness.
You can condition people like lions to some extent that they wont do certain things, even if their nature tells them to do so. The moment you turn your back on them though they, like many wild animals in the circus might bite off your head.
Nature, not nurture, as unfortunate and politically incorrect as this fact is, it is still a fact.

You use some genes against others. The genes that compel people to congregate into groups and protect friends and family against the genes which compel people to kill their enemies. You tie it all together with negative feedback loops to make it stable.

Moses the law giver set the rules. Those that enforce them get status. (A Very strong desire of our nature.) You get everything in balance, and the system is stable.

[MSimon]

Legal Legitimacy lends moral legitimacy in many people's minds. (Not all.)

If that is the criteria then you are in socialist nanny state territory. Every thing not forbidden is mandatory. Or is it the other way around?

What if people start inventing misbehaviors faster that laws can be invented?

It will be close but I predict government will prevail and prevent anything useful from getting done. OTOH the useless things that will be prevented are nearly boundless so there ought to be a net savings there.

[MSimon]

"Mental Health" is just a dodge for convenience

Different religions have different takes on the matter. For instance the Jewish religion places much more weight on the mental health of the mother than the life of the infant. You may not like it. But it is settled law.

Some think abortion is a murder one event. Others are more inclined to misdemeanor territory. How do you resolve that one?

[Betruger]

The first thing we do is to teach people that murder is bad.

Behaviourism at its "best".
People already know FROM BIRTH that killing other people is bad. It is in our genes![...]Nature, not nurture, as unfortunate and politically incorrect as this fact is, it is still a fact.

Curiously, the above was phrased as is, rather than "teach people that life is good".

One ought to do things because they're the right thing. Analog is the common religious axiom that one ought to fear God and act accordingly; rather than do things out of love and for Good no matter the inherent perils. I think the former premise is suspicious.

[Diogenes]

Legal Legitimacy lends moral legitimacy in many people's minds. (Not all.)

If that is the criteria then you are in socialist nanny state territory. Every thing not forbidden is mandatory. Or is it the other way around?

I am simply stating how people think. (as near as I can tell.) The majority of people seem to believe that Legal = Just.

What if people start inventing misbehaviors faster that laws can be invented?

It will be close but I predict government will prevail and prevent anything useful from getting done. OTOH the useless things that will be prevented are nearly boundless so there ought to be a net savings there.

I would suggest that there are only a few categories of misbehavior. For example, injuring someone can span the gamut from verbal abuse to murder.(and even farther, to torture murder, and the murder of family members.)

The point is, it is a continuous Spectrum from Zero to Infinity, a point which might not be apparent to an adherent of "compartmentalization."

Why create subcategories if they are unnecessary?

[Diogenes]

"Mental Health" is just a dodge for convenience

Different religions have different takes on the matter. For instance the Jewish religion places much more weight on the mental health of the mother than the life of the infant. You may not like it. But it is settled law.

I never really addressed this issue, but I believe Mona Charen has. As I am no expert on Jewish law, I can only say to this issue that i've seen essays in disagreement with your interpretation of it. My personal rule of thumb regarding Jewish law is that I would find the opinions of the Orthodox members to be the most accurate.


While we're on the subject, Years ago I used to watch the research channel on satellite, (i've since disconnected it because I didn't want my kids watching the crap they wanted to watch.) and occasionally they would have an expert on Jewish History and Law, and it was quite interesting. I still remember bits and pieces of it.

Some think abortion is a murder one event. Others are more inclined to misdemeanor territory. How do you resolve that one?

Well, the legal system is big on precedent and equality. So in light of how the legal system deals with a man killing an unborn child, and in light of how the legal system demands equality regardless of race, religion, or sex, I would suppose that we should have to find the answer by looking at how the legal system has dealt with the issue in the past, and apply it equally to everybody.

This example comes to mind.



Sacramento judge gives man 50-to-life for killing unborn baby


I'm guessing this is probably a felony.

[Diogenes]

The first thing we do is to teach people that murder is bad.

Behaviourism at its "best".
People already know FROM BIRTH that killing other people is bad. It is in our genes![...]Nature, not nurture, as unfortunate and politically incorrect as this fact is, it is still a fact.

Curiously, the above was phrased as is, rather than "teach people that life is good".

One ought to do things because they're the right thing. Analog is the common religious axiom that one ought to fear God and act accordingly; rather than do things out of love and for Good no matter the inherent perils. I think the former premise is suspicious.

I think fear of retribution is hardwired into our genes as being the more persuasive of the arguments to we humankind.

[Betruger]

Agree to disagree.. A healthy human yearns rather than fears.