Latest drug addict loons.

[hanelyp]

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’

Thus illustrating who were really the wise men and really the fools.

[MSimon]

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’

Thus illustrating who were really the wise men and really the fools.

The wise are generally accorded to be those whose endocannabinoid production has declined and thus whose ideas are fixed.

Fixed ideas don't work so well anymore.

Never trust anyone over 30 is still fairly true.

[ladajo]

Fair enough, but there is an established direct correllation for "tried" to "addiction". These percentages are well studied, an show a positive relationship. More "tries" equals more "addicts".

I don't doubt there's a correlation, but there are other factors in play, too, so unless you guarantee "all else being equal" you can't take one figure directly for the other.

I leave that as an exercise for the reader. Read the research, tell me what the limitations were. Well run research controls "all else being equal". I have seen this controlled enough in the literature reviews I have done to satisfy me. To each his own.

[williatw]

Apparently all that crap we've been told about how successful Portugal's drug program was was exactly what we thought; Propaganda.

Liberal Democrats held up Portugal as shining example on 'drugs war'
But since legalisation the number of children users has more than doubled
In 1995 8% of teenagers had tried drugs but after new law it rose to 19%
More children under 13 have also tried cannabis since laws were relaxed

Of course in any case decriminalization is a far cry from legalized & regulated. Throwing your hands up and letting them do whatever they want vs controlling by legalizing the amounts, concentration, who is allowed to use/posses/sell is different from just letting illegal dope pushers sell their product to whomever they wish. Also in any case very much doubt very many people in Portugal want to go back to a US style mass incarceration approach.

[Teahive]

The details aren't the significant point here. The significant point here is

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’

Without "the details", i.e. relevant figures, there is no significant point.

[paperburn1]

Never trust anyone over 30 is still fairly true.

So your saying don't trust you, generally?

[choff]

I remember that phrase, it would have been a surprise to the under thirty crowd of that day the extent to which the entire counterculture(especially the drug culture) was fabricated by the over thirty crowd.

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr93.html

http://www.gnosticmedia.com/manufacturi ... jan-irvin/

[MSimon]

Never trust anyone over 30 is still fairly true.

So your saying don't trust you, generally? 8)

That is correct. Trust the data. Fortunately I know a few things about the endocannabinoid system. For one it controls the immune system. Recent studies show cannabis may be a cure for about 2/3rds of the people with diabetes. Unfortunately Prohibition prevents testing on humans.

Given the election results that will not last too much longer. And then there was the 1998 NCI study showing THC analog anandamide was effective against breast cancer. And the effect was dose related.

And a few other studies about other things. Like pancreatic cancer.

Kids like me read those studies and come to one conclusion. OFs don't read the same studies and come to a different conclusion. And why don't OFs read the studies. Because they already know the answers. Their brains are "mature". I have been accused of being immature more than once. A very high compliment in my estimation.

[Diogenes]

The details aren't the significant point here. The significant point here is

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’

Without "the details", i.e. relevant figures, there is no significant point.

What difference do the actual figures make? The Portuguese government just makes up the ones they want anyways. It is naive to believe what advocates say.



I've long ago become accustomed to the idea that most of the claims made by people involved in this drug business is just a big game of liar's poker.

[MSimon]

The details aren't the significant point here. The significant point here is

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’

Without "the details", i.e. relevant figures, there is no significant point.

What difference do the actual figures make? The Portuguese government just makes up the ones they want anyways. It is naive to believe what advocates say.

I've long ago become accustomed to the idea that most of the claims made by people involved in this drug business is just a big game of liar's poker.

Well a tell would be a significant segment of the Portuguese population agitating for a reversion to Prohibition. Or something similar in Switzerland re: opiates. A quick search showed nothing.

One thing we know for sure.



And how about those election results? Sarah Palin territory! And those numbers in Florida (even though it didn't pass)!

[williatw]

Well a tell would be a significant segment of the Portuguese population agitating for a reversion to Prohibition.

And that's the thing...no one wants to go back to prohibition in Portugal or anywhere else prohibition is finally ended. Which is the real fear of the prohibitionists...once people figure out the sky hasn't fallen in Colorado and other places that will be the end of the WOD.

And how about those election results? Sarah Palin territory! And those numbers in Florida (even though it didn't pass)!

Yes and this was a low young people turnout midterm election in Florida where mostly the oldsters bother to vote...and even then it almost passed with 57% approval. But it did pass in Oregon, DC, and Alaska.

[GIThruster]

And that's the thing...no one wants to go back to prohibition in Portugal or anywhere else prohibition is finally ended

Right. Because 15% drug addition increase per year is normal behavior and we should just let them kill themselves and each other. . and then pay for it the way we pay for Simon.

http://www.eurad.net/en/news/consumptio ... FRnMYs.ips

[krenshala]

I think an interesting bit of data would be a comparison of per year usage-rates between China when the Brits forced opium on them, and Portugal when the prohibition ended.

[MSimon]

I think an interesting bit of data would be a comparison of per year usage-rates between China when the Brits forced opium on them, and Portugal when the prohibition ended.

Impoverished countries (districts) use opium to make up for the poverty. You can see this in opium use rates in the US from the 1770s on.

Prosperous countries have residual "addiction" rates. Typically in the 1.5% range. So what was the "addiction" rate in the US when heroin was outlawed? About 1.3%. What is it after 100 years of Prohibition? About 1.3%.

We have spent a fortune to accomplish nothing. Well, other than make gangsters rich and fill our jails. It has gotten so bad that consummate drug warrior Newt Gingrich backed heroin decrim in CA. The measure won.

Who exactly are the loons on this issue? We still have a few left around here. But they are losing more badly every day. Police can not cure cancer. Or addiction. Despite beliefs to the contrary. Fortunately it is a dying faith. I have the supreme honor of being one of the early adopters of the new faith. About 50 years ago. Back when believers were persecuted horribly. I actually joined an organized faith (the Libertarian Party) in 1988.

I come to bury Nixon not to praise him.

[MSimon]

Well GIT you wanted to impoverish people you didn't like. And now you get to pay for their maintenance.

Karma is a bitch innit?

Perhaps siccing government on people you don't like isn't the wisest policy. Maybe you should just mind your own business. You know. Stick to rockets and UFOs.

Hatred has a way of destroying the haters. It is considered a deadly sin. Perhaps it is time you gave it up.