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Johnson Thermo-Electrochemical Converter System

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:17 pm
by krenshala
I thought this might be applicable to the Polywell, and is at the least an interesting device in its own right.

http://www.johnsonems.com/?q=node/2
Until now, thermodynamic engines that use compressible working fluids have generally been mechanical devices. These devices have inherent difficulties in achieving high compression ratios and in achieving the near constant temperature compression and expansion processes needed to approximate Carnot equivalent cycles. Solid-state thermoelectric converters that utilize semiconductor materials have only been able to achieve single digit conversion efficiency. Extensive resources have been applied toward Alkali Metal Thermoelectric Converters (AMTEC), which operate on a modified Rankine cycle and on the Stirling engine. However, because of inherent limitations, these systems have not achieved envisioned performance levels.

The JTEC is an all solid-state engine that operates on the Ericsson cycle. Equivalent to Carnot, the Ericsson cycle offers the maximum theoretical efficiency available from an engine operating between two temperatures. The JTEC system utilizes the electro-chemical potential of hydrogen pressure applied across a proton conductive membrane (PCM). The membrane and a pair of electrodes form a Membrane Electrode Assembly (MEA) similar to those used in fuel cells. On the
high-pressure side of the MEA, hydrogen gas is oxidized resulting in the creation of protons and electrons. The pressure differential forces protons through the membrane causing the electrodes to conduct electrons through an external load. On the low-pressure side, the protons are reduced with the electrons to reform hydrogen gas. This process can also operate in reverse. If current is passed through the MEA a low-pressure gas can be "pumped" to a higher pressure.

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:28 pm
by chrismb
I think it meant to say "hydrogen gas is ionised", no?

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:53 am
by Giorgio
This is a variation of the same principle of the AMTEC that was discussed quite fiercely few months ago on the board:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login ... ision=-203
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkali-met ... _converter

He uses a plastic exchange membrane and hydrogen gas in lieu of Alumina and Sodium, which makes me wonder how high will really be the "high temperature heat source"
chrismb wrote:I think it meant to say "hydrogen gas is ionised", no?
I highly doubt. Even if we consider a cold plasma the proton exchange membrane should not be able to withstand it.

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:41 pm
by KitemanSA
Giorgio wrote:
chrismb wrote:I think it meant to say "hydrogen gas is ionised", no?
I highly doubt. Even if we consider a cold plasma the proton exchange membrane should not be able to withstand it.
Perhaps the statement should have been "the Hydrogen is ionized" which allows for a surface effect ionization w/o a plasma. No?

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:16 pm
by Giorgio
My bad, when I read "ionised" I gave for granted that he was speaking about a plasma, which clearly is not the case :oops:

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:38 pm
by KitemanSA
Understandable. The areticle said "Hydrogen gas is oxidized", chrismb wanted to change it to "Hydrogen gas is ionized" which would naturally lead to "plasma".

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:52 pm
by Aero
There is no mention of H2O anywhere in the article, and since H2O is the result when oxidizing hydrogen, he meant "ionized." He is using a proton exchange membrane, PEM, which operates on protons, the result of ionized hydrogen. IMO.

Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:47 am
by KitemanSA
Aero wrote:There is no mention of H2O anywhere in the article, and since H2O is the result when oxidizing hydrogen, he meant "ionized." He is using a proton exchange membrane, PEM, which operates on protons, the result of ionized hydrogen. IMO.
You can "oxidize" Hydrogen with MANY things, not just oxygen.
The wikipedia article on fuel cells wrote:At the anode a catalyst oxidizes the fuel, usually hydrogen, turning the fuel into a positively charged ion and a negatively charged electron.
Perhaps they are both right! :lol: