a discussion forum for Polywell fusion
https://www.talk-polywell.org/bb/
Larger machines are also easier to manage from a thermal perspective, assuming the effective surface area increases faster than the ability to generate waste heat. It's not like Polaris is some beast like a tokamak; it's only 19m long. I can foresee a Mark II commercial machine that's larger than Polaris, maybe 1.25-1.5x, to get better gain (IIRC, the gyroradius was little larger than expected, yes?) and solve any heat management problems that may arise, but still MUCH smaller than most of the other competing fusion technologies.
Ask SpaceX! They dimensioned their first stages to be transportable by road. That is why Falcon 9 is so long and thin.
All of this can be transported on trucks by road and will be assembled on site. Even the building can be delivered in pieces by road.charliem wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 6:37 pmAlso, is that really important ? Judging by Helion's own concept design, the ancillaries will take quite more space than the reactor (capacitor banks, power electronics, monitoring and control circuitry, exhaust treatment, cooling, etc.) so, multiple containers anyhow.
Good point.Skipjack wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:46 pm... Even the building can be delivered in pieces by road.
But the core will likely need the most maintenance. Just replace the entire thing, transport it back to the factory, refurbish, then use that to replace another machine, etc.
Otherwise, you have to take crews out to the site, disassemble there, then when re- assembling on site, re- adjust alignments, etc.
Well, I have sometimes wondered why the russian technology of on site reactor tank annealing is never discussed in fusion. From the start of the russian nuclear program they had an issue with producing reactor vessels in the size needed for commercial power plant.Good point.
Having worked in heavy industry, I've seen things much bigger than 3m transported by road. Let's consider too, the current Helion facility won't be the only production facility, if for no other reason than there's a much larger manufacturing base on the other side of the Rockies from them, with far fewer impediments to road transport. State governments will be falling over themselves to attract a Helion fabrication plant (or a licensee of their technology) once the technology proves itself.Skipjack wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:46 pmAsk SpaceX! They dimensioned their first stages to be transportable by road. That is why Falcon 9 is so long and thin.
If Helion plans to produce and deliver 20 machines a day, they need to consider logistics.
All of this can be transported on trucks by road and will be assembled on site. Even the building can be delivered in pieces by road.charliem wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 6:37 pmAlso, is that really important ? Judging by Helion's own concept design, the ancillaries will take quite more space than the reactor (capacitor banks, power electronics, monitoring and control circuitry, exhaust treatment, cooling, etc.) so, multiple containers anyhow.
But the core will likely need the most maintenance. Just replace the entire thing, transport it back to the factory, refurbish, then use that to replace another machine, etc.
Otherwise, you have to take crews out to the site, disassemble there, then when re- assembling on site, re- adjust alignments, etc.
I am sure they can package these things up in a way that they are stable for road transport. There are much more fragile things transported by road all the time.
thanks, I had assumed Polaris must be SC to reduce the losses in their plasma electric conversion scheme -- they are talking 95% efficiency:Skipjack wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 2:03 amHelion's magnets are just standard aluminum magnets. Not super conducting. I can't unfortunately give more details in their past magnet experiments.
The alternative to stronger magnets are bigger machines. From what I understand, there is currently no noticeable limit for how big you can make them and they scale volumetrically.
lol if they don't even need SC magnets and can harvest 90% of the fusion energy as electricity via plasma currents then even LWRs are are going to be obsolete overnight, let alone fusion competitors with low-beta SC designsOur earliest machines demonstrated that we could take electricity stored in capacitors, convert it to magnetic fields, and then recover it back out as electricity at as high as over 95% efficiency
As soon as I found out Helion was able to extract the plasma energy directly from the magnetic field push back, it completely changed my outlook to what you have stated. The only other competitor IMO is Zap Energy, and that is because it can retrofit steam plant heat sources.lol if they don't even need SC magnets and can harvest 90% of the fusion energy as electricity via plasma currents then even LWRs are are going to be obsolete overnight, let alone fusion competitors with low-beta SC designs
Sure, you can, but they won't fit through underpasses, you need special permits, it slows things down tremendously. Helion wants to produce (eventually) 20 machines a day. That is a lot of machines to transport. Tactics wins a battle, logistics wins the war.usesbiggerwords wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 2:15 pmHaving worked in heavy industry, I've seen things much bigger than 3m transported by road. Let's consider too, the current Helion facility won't be the only production facility, if for no other reason than there's a much larger manufacturing base on the other side of the Rockies from them, with far fewer impediments to road transport. State governments will be falling over themselves to attract a Helion fabrication plant (or a licensee of their technology) once the technology proves itself.
They have been a lot more open recently (though still keeping a few things secret). They have a few interviews and stuff with various engineering channels on Youtube. E.g. Real Engineering and the Plasma Channel. The Real Engineering one has a lot of details about their work but still leaves out some things. Helion is trying to walk a thin line between revealing enough and revealing too much. They were rather shocked when they learned about the Chinese clone of Venti. There is now a new, bigger one in the works also. I believe it was called HUFF- FRC, or something like that.