10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

[ScottL]

Here's a start:

He has claimed to have a factory currently producing eCats in the U.S., specifically in Florida. According to the investigation report in Florida, he claims all production of materials and eCats is done overseas. So which is it?

Oh kriminy, not that crud again.

Given that you are providing a "ferinstance" to TC's "proven false" I take this to mean that you subscribe to that statement. If so, you seem to be unable to distinguish tenses.

The FBRC dude says Rossi said that no reactors were built in Florida (or some such words). He goes on to say that Rossi PLANS to build in the US once UL Listing is achieved. Rossi says he is building a factory to produce E-Cats in the US. Differnt times. Where is the lie?

You know, I really hate to have to defend Rossi but folks like you just can't seem to quit making unsupportable statements about him. You and Rossi seem to be much alike, making unsupportable statements. Ah well. Sigh.

Kite you're not reading. Rossi has categorically claimed he is producing parts for the eCats in the U.S. and said he is not. Ignore whether a factory exists, this is a lie either way. He has stated repeatedly to his viewer base that he is producing parts and ecats in the U.S. only to tell the Florida investigator all parts and manufacturing are over seas. This is undeniable, he has absolutely made both claims.

[Skipjack]

Rossi said the military customers name began with a “N” and was in the business of keeping secrets.

Uhm, Norwegian military? Nigerian military? Niceraguan military? New Zealand military?

It just reminds me of the famous Carl Sagan quote:
"Observation: I cant see a thing. Conclusion: Dinosaurs".

Joseph, you quoted the above quote by Axil as having been said by me. It was not me who said that. Just making this clear.

[tomclarke]

Axil, do you not begin to worry about quoting Rossi's statements when all the substantive ones so far that can be checked have proven false?

Specifics please?

Given the nature of my statement (a for all quantifier) logically you need to provide specifics, not me. Just one substantive statement proven true would do it.

My comment would be correct if he had never made any statements!

However, ignoring logic, and off the top of my head:

• big e-cat was sold and off to customer (it was not)
  production in Florida (no production)
  NASA would validate (no validation because of Rossi's demand for money)
  Bologna would validate (no validation because Rossi refused to pay agreed sum)

That enough for you?

[tomclarke]

And before anyone (not anyone, any Rossibot) says - I know Rossi will have excuses and weasel words for the above. He appears to have a short-term memory deficit and so not remember when he is contradicting himself. The above cases are all statements which appeared substantive but turned out, when checked, to be flim-flam. Or which turned out false, depending on how much you allow Italian-> English translation of "si" to be "no".

My statement was that he had made no substantive statement checked and not proven false.

So give me the substance checked and proven true? Or admit that whatever your opinion of LENR the Rossi story is flakey indeed.

[tomclarke]

Given that you are providing a "ferinstance" to TC's "proven false"

Just to take you up on that. I'm not strictly saying Rossi is proven false. Just a proven liar, and no evidence for him to have what he claims, with lots of negatives. there is a subtle difference.

And I'm certainly not saying LENR is proven false. That, I've said, would be impossible. (two pages or so above - I don't know how to link individual posts?).

[KitemanSA]

Kite you're not reading. Rossi has categorically claimed he is producing parts for the eCats in the U.S. and said he is not.

PARTS does not equal reactors. Seems it is not just tenses you have trouble with. Your statment would be akin to calling "American Standard" a liar if they stated they don't make nuclear reactors because you happen to KNOW that there are "American Standard" toilets in almost every US based nuclear plant that is or ever existed. Even if "AS" is owned in full by General Electric that makes BWRs, it doesn't mean AS is building reactors.

Ignore whether a factory exists, this is a lie either way. He has stated repeatedly to his viewer base that he is producing parts and ecats in the U.S. only to tell the Florida investigator all parts and manufacturing are over seas. This is undeniable, he has absolutely made both claims.

Provide a cite where he states that he is making complete E-cats currently (or in the past) in the US. Please. However, please don't include statements where "ecats" can reasonably be taken as shorthand for "limited non-reactor core parts of ecats".

Shorthand is NOT a lie, only a communications convenience.

Folks like you keep bringing up this "proven false" tripe. I keep showing how there is no proof. Folks like you keep letting the issue die. Then you bring it up again.

Show me PROOF that he is lying or admit that you have been mistaken. I don't expect you to change your BELIEF that he is a liar. But SHOW proof or admit you have none. To do anything less at this point will make YOU the liar.

[Ivy Matt]

You do have a short memory. Rossi said the military customers name began with a “N” and was in the business of keeping secrets.

Where did Rossi say any such thing?

See your post:

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:42 pm

I see. You're seeing what you want to see and not understanding what you don't want to understand.

I'm still not clear where you got that "in the business of keeping secrets" bit, though. As far as I can tell it's an Axil original.

[ScottL]

Kite you're not reading. Rossi has categorically claimed he is producing parts for the eCats in the U.S. and said he is not.

PARTS does not equal reactors. Seems it is not just tenses you have trouble with. Your statment would be akin to calling "American Standard" a liar if they stated they don't make nuclear reactors because you happen to KNOW that there are "American Standard" toilets in almost every US based nuclear plant that is or ever existed. Even if "AS" is owned in full by General Electric that makes BWRs, it doesn't mean AS is building reactors.

Ignore whether a factory exists, this is a lie either way. He has stated repeatedly to his viewer base that he is producing parts and ecats in the U.S. only to tell the Florida investigator all parts and manufacturing are over seas. This is undeniable, he has absolutely made both claims.

Provide a cite where he states that he is making complete E-cats currently (or in the past) in the US. Please. However, please don't include statements where "ecats" can reasonably be taken as shorthand for "limited non-reactor core parts of ecats".

Shorthand is NOT a lie, only a communications convenience.

Folks like you keep bringing up this "proven false" tripe. I keep showing how there is no proof. Folks like you keep letting the issue die. Then you bring it up again.

Show me PROOF that he is lying or admit that you have been mistaken. I don't expect you to change your BELIEF that he is a liar. But SHOW proof or admit you have none. To do anything less at this point will make YOU the liar.

Claim #1: "We currently manufacture parts and reactors in Florida"

Claim #2: "All manufacturing is done over-seas, no parts or reactors are made in the U.S."

Please go back and re-read his actual claims, they're up on his blog.

Currently all production, distribution and use of these devices is overseas."

http://pesn.com/2012/03/11/9602054_Ross ... Reactions/

Surprisingly my previous question is in an article:
http://andrearossiecat.com/andrea-rossi ... meone-else

We made the news, now back tot he citing:

13.Fyodor

December 9th, 2011 at 11:08 AM

Mr. Rossi

Has production begun yet in your US facilities? Or are they still starting up?

Thank you for taking time to answer my question

Andrea Rossi

December 9th, 2011 at 4:37 PM

Dear Fyodor:
Begun.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Looks like lies to me.... actually I found this interesting site that quotes all his "fibs" on his blog:

http://ecatdoteudotcom.wordpress.com/20 ... -not-news/

[ladajo]

Careful, you will increase the Rossilations. They will become unstable, and the Rossibot control systems will fail...Rossibots do not do well when reality intervenes.

[KitemanSA]

Replies in red.

big e-cat was sold and off to customer (it was not)
Not sure about this one. Seemed to be a timing issue, but I don't know the details. I'll call this "possible but unproven". It is your only possible hit.
production in Florida (no production)
Says who? Or are you mixing parts with wholes and mixing tenses too?
NASA would validate (no validation because of Rossi's demand for money)
"Would" is a future looking word. Sometimes plans don't pan out.
Bologna would validate (no validation because Rossi refused to pay agreed sum)
IBID

That enough for you?

Zero (with a possible but unproven) for 4, not very good record. If this is the best you got....

Yes the man MAY be a scammer. But then his machine MAY work, if only sometimes. Neither is proven.

[ladajo]

And good link. Hadn't seen that one. Very clear direct quote contradictions.

He goes from making, sold, in operation (many) Ecats in the US to none in the US.

He says at one point that the 1MW is in the Northeast. who knows where it is now...some think still in the shop in Bologna. Never moved. Some Italian should go peek in the window.

Blah blah blah.

Full-o-shyte is he.

[tomclarke]

Replies in red.

big e-cat was sold and off to customer (it was not)
Not sure about this one. Seemed to be a timing issue, but I don't know the details. I'll call this "possible but unproven". It is your only possible hit.
production in Florida (no production)
Says who? Or are you mixing parts with wholes and mixing tenses too?
NASA would validate (no validation because of Rossi's demand for money)
"Would" is a future looking word. Sometimes plans don't pan out.
Bologna would validate (no validation because Rossi refused to pay agreed sum)
IBID

That enough for you?

Zero (with a possible but unproven) for 4, not very good record. If this is the best you got....

Yes the man MAY be a scammer. But then his machine MAY work, if only sometimes. Neither is proven.

I'll let others argue about whether Rossi can weasel out of four obvious contradictions. Just point out that with the last two points, Rossi changed his terms so as to prevent the validation, after heavily advertising that validation would happen.

You are missing the point. I said:

All Rossi's substantive comments which can be checked have proved false.

I assume you agree with this, since you have not given me one substantive comment which has been checked and not proved false.

That says it all.

Your repeated assertion that we can't prove Rossi is full of shite is not relevant. I can't prove you are not a visitor from Europa impersonating an earthling - but it is pretty unlikely.

[parallel]

Defkalion has conducted third party tests on its core technology by internationally recognized and reputable private and public organizations from Europe and America. Today, there is solid, unambiguous evidence confirming our technology. We are at the dawn of a new era of clean, inexpensive, limitless renewable energy.
snip
Defkalion will become the first global player in LENR using its proprietary technology to commercialize its new products and diversify into new Research & Development efforts for new applications. It plans to have a fully operational prototype ready by July 2012.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/10936731642 ... Qf54WUY2Cb

If Defkalion's Hyperion works it is a safe bet that so does Rossi's E-Cat

[Betruger]

Who cares about bets. When can we see inside the black box? Everything else is worthless beating round the bush and grand standing.

[ladajo]

Defkalion has conducted third party tests on its core technology by internationally recognized and reputable private and public organizations from Europe and America. Today, there is solid, unambiguous evidence confirming our technology. We are at the dawn of a new era of clean, inexpensive, limitless renewable energy.
snip
Defkalion will become the first global player in LENR using its proprietary technology to commercialize its new products and diversify into new Research & Development efforts for new applications. It plans to have a fully operational prototype ready by July 2012.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/10936731642 ... Qf54WUY2Cb

If Defkalion's Hyperion works it is a safe bet that so does Rossi's E-Cat

If.

and,

If.

And at the end of it, Rossi may have a "working" E-Cat, but that does not mean he has not been full of shyte.

The odds of Rossi not being full of shyte, are about the same as the U.S Navy having bought one of his E-Cats. Zero.

All that said, it remains to be seen what DGT has or not. Rossi has already demonstrated(multiple times) that he can not prove he has.