ladajo wrote:Does anyone want to pick this apart? On my first look it would seem that Rossi has once again changed his story on several fronts. I have bolded where I thought it a further deviation from past statements and corroborations:
Andrea Rossi
February 23rd, 2012 at 11:21 AM
Dear Redazione NextMe.it:
1- no radiations have been detected outside the E-Cats in thousand hours of operation
2- we will disclose the theory regarding the physics of the E-Cat after the product will be in the market: as you know, we will put it in the market at a price that will make useless any reverse engineering.
3- we made repeatedly tests
4- we are working also on the electric power production
5- NASA is not in contact with us
6- About the university of Bologna I am under NDA, as well as they are.
7- I do not think the E-Cats can produce new matirials. They can only produce thermal energy.
8- The E-Cat will be sold at a price between 500 and 900 US$.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
My inside source confirmed to me that they are not anymore under NDA.
Upon pressuring him to reveal all the details he knew, his reply was that there was nothing to talk about because Rossi never disclosed to them anything relevant regarding the eCat. All technical discussions was supposed to take place after delivery of the test eCat to UoB and as no eCat was delivered, no technical discussion or disclosure was done.
Rossi is distorting yet again the truth, and this does not play in his favor when having to judge the goodness of his claims.
technically speaking LENR is a well-known and un-disputed phenomena: it's called muon-catalyzed fusion.
but what's really being discussed here is CMNS ("condensed matter nuclear science") the study of how a condensed matter state might affect interaction via the strong and weak forces. and as has already been mentioned, this is a very difficult problem, mathematically. so yeah, empirical results are probably going to come well before theoretical predictions. which makes the statement "that's theoretically impossible" an incredibly misguided one.
tomclarke,
You are either certain LENR doesn’t happen or you have certainly fooled everybody. I suppose the proof of your doubt is that you are afraid to bet me on what you say is a certainty.
the AGW risk is large, uncertain: what we choose to do about it is political.
The risk is not “large.” There is essentially no real proof for it at all. The hypothetical forcing factors are obviously way too high. Some think they may even be negative. What will be done about it is political and not scientific.
We don't know what precautions if any they've taken to rule out foul play (eg. hidden wires, ...
"Hidden wires." Now there's an original idea: who would have thought of that? Obviously not the professional engineers and scientists running the tests. The only way to be certain is to have the brilliant, incisive mind of CKay on each team.
I wonder if anyone considered asking the testers to show their Actors Guild membership cards.
Such certainty parallel! And what makes you an expert?
Don't need to be an expert. Just look at the facts like the origin of the forcing factors, (we couldn't think of anything else except CO2), and the actual sea and land temperatures.
Edit added.
The "experts" all rely on huge grants to prove AGW is happening.
ladajo wrote:Does anyone want to pick this apart? On my first look it would seem that Rossi has once again changed his story on several fronts. I have bolded where I thought it a further deviation from past statements and corroborations:
Andrea Rossi
February 23rd, 2012 at 11:21 AM
Dear Redazione NextMe.it:
1- no radiations have been detected outside the E-Cats in thousand hours of operation
2- we will disclose the theory regarding the physics of the E-Cat after the product will be in the market: as you know, we will put it in the market at a price that will make useless any reverse engineering.
3- we made repeatedly tests
4- we are working also on the electric power production
5- NASA is not in contact with us
6- About the university of Bologna I am under NDA, as well as they are.
7- I do not think the E-Cats can produce new matirials. They can only produce thermal energy.
8- The E-Cat will be sold at a price between 500 and 900 US$.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
My inside source confirmed to me that they are not anymore under NDA.
Upon pressuring him to reveal all the details he knew, his reply was that there was nothing to talk about because Rossi never disclosed to them anything relevant regarding the eCat. All technical discussions was supposed to take place after delivery of the test eCat to UoB and as no eCat was delivered, no technical discussion or disclosure was done.
Rossi is distorting yet again the truth, and this does not play in his favor when having to judge the goodness of his claims.
In almost all instances here in the States, NDA's are written to be in force in perpetuity, meaning there never comes a time where they are no longer in force. I can't imagine Rossi deviating from this standard, and certainly not at this time. Odds are good someone is pulling your leg.
Last edited by GIThruster on Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis
The risk is not “large.” There is essentially no real proof for it at all. The hypothetical forcing factors are obviously way too high. Some think they may even be negative. What will be done about it is political and not scientific.
I would not say that at all. It is a fact that temperatures are rising and it is a fact that CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere are rising. It is not certain that humans are responsible but that does not change the two facts and these two are reason to worry if the trend was to continue. We should at last make sure that we are prepared to deal with the problems that might arise if this trend continues. I totally agree with Tom here, the risk is to big to ignore.
"Hidden wires." Now there's an original idea: who would have thought of that? Obviously not the professional engineers and scientists running the tests. The only way to be certain is to have the brilliant, incisive mind of CKay on each team.
How do you know for certain that they checked for that? Have they stated that they did?
Again, you are making assumption that these "professional engineers" (whoever that refers to) were checking for possible means of trickery based on the assumption that the were actually expecting a fraud. That is two assumptions based on each other. IMHO not a very good basis for conclusions.
Maybe they did check it or maybe they did not. Maybe they never had the opportunity to check for it? How do we know? How do you know? Were there any detailed procedures and protocols for the tests made public? If so, where are they? Or maybe you were you there and saw them peform these checks, yes?
Skipjack wrote:Again, you are making assumption that these "professional engineers" (whoever that refers to) were checking for possible means of trickery based on the assumption that the were actually expecting a fraud.
Yes, exactly.
One of the biggest criticisms of Essen and Kullander was that they took Rossi largely at his word and didn't seriously consider the possibility of fraud.
In the defense of E&K, Levi and the others, one has to say that they were all expecting to have the devices in their labs for more thourough testing soon after. This never happened. From what I remember their tests were merely demonstrations (allegedly) in preparation for future research that was to be performed by them. If I was being cynical, I would assume that this was merely a way for Rossi to secure "big names" to bolster his credibility (which otherwise would have been non existant). "Demonstrations" then turned into "definitive tests", IMHO something that E&K and Levi never signed off on.
GIThruster wrote:In almost all instances here in the States, NDA's are written to be in force in perpetuity, meaning there never comes a time where they are no longer in force. I can't imagine Rossi deviating from this standard, and certainly not at this time. Odds are good someone is pulling your leg.
This is rarely if ever the case in the States. Most noatable, any software development, product development, etc. The products and software come out eventually, so at that point most if not all of your signed NDAs' timed agreement is up.
Well that is the exception. Of course when there is nothing to be gained by keeping a confidence, the agreement is terminated. However, in those instances where there is no resolution (which is the majority) the contract is in effect in perpetuity. Obviously, Rossi has what he considers trade secrets that need to be kept in confidence, so it makes no sense for Giorio's "insider" friend to say he was released from his NDA. Just saying, makes no sense and sounds like bullshit.
NDA'a very seldom just time out. Normally they're worded closer to this:
The nondisclosure provisions of this Agreement shall survive the termination of this Agreement and Receiving Party's duty to hold Confidential Information in confidence shall remain in effect until the Confidential Information no longer qualifies as a trade secret or until Disclosing Party sends Receiving Party written notice releasing Receiving Party from this Agreement, whichever occurs first.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis