Researchers send 'wireless' message using neutrinos
Re: Researchers send 'wireless' message using neutrinos
Meaning no neutrino equipment onboard the sub. The sub would link to the fixed comm station with laser or ...DeltaV wrote:A fixed "comm station" for passing subs might be doable now.
Like a cell tower. It would have to look/sound like a shipwreck or dead whale to passing adversaries.
But, I agree, ocean-penetrating laser links from orbit are better. Until your orbital constellation is wiped out.
Think shotgun.
Simultaneous EMP nukes. Synchronized activation of pre-implanted virus in attitude control or ground tracking software. Attack on ground stations. Stealthy dispersal of black sand clouds. Or, to be really nasty, intentionally triggering an orbital debris chain reaction. Assuming the adversary has fewer orbital assets to start with, and is willing to lose them.
Secret X-37B Space Plane Spotted by Amateur Skywatchers
ASM-135 ASAT
30 year-old technology.
Simultaneous EMP nukes. Synchronized activation of pre-implanted virus in attitude control or ground tracking software. Attack on ground stations. Stealthy dispersal of black sand clouds. Or, to be really nasty, intentionally triggering an orbital debris chain reaction. Assuming the adversary has fewer orbital assets to start with, and is willing to lose them.
Not that hard.Hard to hit a mobile bird. Think X-37.
Secret X-37B Space Plane Spotted by Amateur Skywatchers
ASM-135 ASAT
30 year-old technology.
ASAT - Hehe-he. Which part of maneuvering target did you miss?DeltaV wrote:Think shotgun.
Simultaneous EMP nukes. Synchronized activation of pre-implanted virus in attitude control or ground tracking software. Attack on ground stations. Stealthy dispersal of black sand clouds. Or, to be really nasty, intentionally triggering an orbital debris chain reaction. Assuming the adversary has fewer orbital assets to start with, and is willing to lose them.
Not that hard.Hard to hit a mobile bird. Think X-37.
Secret X-37B Space Plane Spotted by Amateur Skywatchers
ASM-135 ASAT
30 year-old technology.
Once you start popping EMPs, and orbital sand clouds, etc. you have crossed a redline for end of the world war. Good luck with that.
He who gets silly first, gets global nuclear war second. There are certain things you just don't mess with.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
Oh, right.ladajo wrote:ASAT - Hehe-he. Which part of maneuvering target did you miss?
In the minute or two remaining after DSP/SBIRS/RAIDRS detects an ASAT launch from a medium-performance fighter, from a high, poorly-covered geographic latitude (assuming one of those systems can do it), Air Force Space Command correctly assesses the source of the detected signature, determines the ASAT trajectory and target, issues evasive maneuver commands to the target satellite, and watches as the target acquires enough delta-V to evade an infrared-homing kill vehicle closing at a relative speed near 30,000 mph.
The F-15 ASAT story
Flying at Mach 1.22 some 200 miles west of Vandenberg Air Force Base, he executed a 3.8g pull-up to a climb angle of 65 degrees. The missile automatically launched itself at 38,100 ft.
Sven Grahn's comments: I have been thinking about the intercept geometry of the F-15 ASAT. As I see it the two-stage booster could not have reached more than maybe 4-5 km/s at burnout, which is not enough to catch up with a satellite in orbit moving at 7-8 km/s. Therefore the intercept must have been made "head-to-head", i.e a head-on approach.
Har, har, har.
Nice pictures.
You still don't get the part about getting cone on manuevering vehicle. Sorry.
You also assume that the firing nation has 360 Space Surveillance. The fundamental point is that the other guys should all be (and probably are) nervous about X-37B and what it brings to the table.
Yup. It can stay in a stable orbit. Or, not. Space Tracking is not nearly as easy as what you make it out to be. But I guess maybe you don't actually know much about how it really works and is done.
ASAT was designed to go against Kepler stable vehicles. Only.
It was so good, we don't have it any more.
You still don't get the part about getting cone on manuevering vehicle. Sorry.
You also assume that the firing nation has 360 Space Surveillance. The fundamental point is that the other guys should all be (and probably are) nervous about X-37B and what it brings to the table.
Yup. It can stay in a stable orbit. Or, not. Space Tracking is not nearly as easy as what you make it out to be. But I guess maybe you don't actually know much about how it really works and is done.
ASAT was designed to go against Kepler stable vehicles. Only.
It was so good, we don't have it any more.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
A picture is worth a thousand words.ladajo wrote:Nice pictures.
Tell me how fast the cone will have to move to keep up with electric or hydrazine thrusters. Are you saying the target has some SSMEs mounted, with fuel/oxidizer tanks, used just for evasive purposes? Or is there already a Polywell-powered Mach-Woodward bird you haven't told us about?ladajo wrote:You still don't get the part about getting cone on manuevering vehicle. Sorry.
No. Not even the US has that. Just a widespread, dedicated band of watch-synchronized skywatchers who know how to deduce orbits from combined observations.ladajo wrote:You also assume that the firing nation has 360 Space Surveillance.
The issue under review is susceptibility to ASATs. Even X-37B spends 99.999% of its time in a non-maneuvering state. We haven't broached stealth, etc., so that is not on the table. If you can see it, you can track it.ladajo wrote:The fundamental point is that the other guys should all be (and probably are) nervous about X-37B and what it brings to the table
Yup. It can stay in a stable orbit. Or, not. Space Tracking is not nearly as easy as what you make it out to be. But I guess maybe you don't actually know much about how it really works and is done.
"Kepler stable"? Malarkey. Any vehicle whose delta-V capability does not exceed the ASAT's ability to track/reach. Tell me more about those high-thrust anti-grav propulsors our satellites are now carrying, instead of the typical milliNewton thrusters.ladajo wrote:ASAT was designed to go against Kepler stable vehicles. Only.
It went black. Like Polywell.ladajo wrote:It was so good, we don't have it any more.
We are talking about two things.
Thing one is the ability to hit X-37B with an ASAT. Thing one is not likely to happen. X-37B was designed to be mobile. It has shifted orbits many times. Bird 1 was lost a number of times on orbits shifts by the "network".
Space Tracking is not as easy as you make it out to be. We (The US) are the best at it in the world, bar none. There is no real second competitor, we are so far out in front. We would be hard pressed to hit X-37B if it did not want to be hit/predictable.
The terminal seeker on ASAT was very limited. Even the new seekers have limitations. They also do not have long to correct, and thus must be set up well on the launch and mid-course. If the target is changing orbit, it is not likely to consumate the shot as the mid-course and terminal seeking will be to far off the mark. The ellipse is not big enough, and, time is not on the weapons side.
X-37 flight 2 has been relatively stable given its test mission profile. That is its magic. It can hang for long times in a set path, and then with no notice, shift. And, the shift can be significant enough on one loop that it falls out of knwon tracking, and can take some time to be re-located. Good fun. It worries the shyte out of the other guys.
No magical propulsion required. Ask the skywatchers from last year how many times that they lost track, only to find it again some time later in a new orbit.
BTW, SM-3 and SM6 are very capable systems. I would not sell them short.
Thing one is the ability to hit X-37B with an ASAT. Thing one is not likely to happen. X-37B was designed to be mobile. It has shifted orbits many times. Bird 1 was lost a number of times on orbits shifts by the "network".
Space Tracking is not as easy as you make it out to be. We (The US) are the best at it in the world, bar none. There is no real second competitor, we are so far out in front. We would be hard pressed to hit X-37B if it did not want to be hit/predictable.
The terminal seeker on ASAT was very limited. Even the new seekers have limitations. They also do not have long to correct, and thus must be set up well on the launch and mid-course. If the target is changing orbit, it is not likely to consumate the shot as the mid-course and terminal seeking will be to far off the mark. The ellipse is not big enough, and, time is not on the weapons side.
X-37 flight 2 has been relatively stable given its test mission profile. That is its magic. It can hang for long times in a set path, and then with no notice, shift. And, the shift can be significant enough on one loop that it falls out of knwon tracking, and can take some time to be re-located. Good fun. It worries the shyte out of the other guys.
No magical propulsion required. Ask the skywatchers from last year how many times that they lost track, only to find it again some time later in a new orbit.
BTW, SM-3 and SM6 are very capable systems. I would not sell them short.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-37B#X-37B_2
F = ma
a = F/m = ((14700 kg.m/s^2)/(4990 kg))/(9.8m/s^2) = 0.3 g
Give or take a few tenths of a gee.
What an awe-inspiring ASAT-evasion endgame capability.
F = ma
a = F/m = ((14700 kg.m/s^2)/(4990 kg))/(9.8m/s^2) = 0.3 g
Give or take a few tenths of a gee.
What an awe-inspiring ASAT-evasion endgame capability.
I am glad that you trust wikipedia as an authoritative reference.
Maybe you should just jump on JWICS and ask one of the guys in whichever X-37B compartment to tell you what it really can do. I am sure they will tell you.
Maybe you should just jump on JWICS and ask one of the guys in whichever X-37B compartment to tell you what it really can do. I am sure they will tell you.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
So now you argue that X-37B is timeframe irrelevant to ASAT. Ok.
I am also making no comment on your X-37B capabilities comment.
What about contemporary systems like SM3 or SM6?
My fundamental point here is that X-37B is a game changer, specifically in its ability to change orbit. It raises large questions regarding track and engage for the "other" guys.
Your point seems to be that it is not. Your point also seems to be based in a lack of real knowledge about Space Surveillance.
Please also recall my earlier statement that there would be certain things that you should not mess with by any means in orbit as Nuclear War starting redline items. Imagine what the Russians would think if somebody went after their launch detection assets or C2 links? They are already paranoiacs.
Space Policy is a very interesting arena these days.
I am also making no comment on your X-37B capabilities comment.
What about contemporary systems like SM3 or SM6?
My fundamental point here is that X-37B is a game changer, specifically in its ability to change orbit. It raises large questions regarding track and engage for the "other" guys.
Your point seems to be that it is not. Your point also seems to be based in a lack of real knowledge about Space Surveillance.
Please also recall my earlier statement that there would be certain things that you should not mess with by any means in orbit as Nuclear War starting redline items. Imagine what the Russians would think if somebody went after their launch detection assets or C2 links? They are already paranoiacs.
Space Policy is a very interesting arena these days.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)