I am new to this forum.
I want to state that I think Rossi has proven conclusively that his E-Cat works.
His tests were not all perfect or as good as they could have been, but I think they obviously show significant amounts (kilowatts) of excess heat.
10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)
Skipjsck,
As I stated on the previous page, you have a problem of not being able to tell the difference between something happening or not happening, so there is no point is debating with you.You have a comprehension problem. No he is not. The whole point of my post was that Smith is no longer offering his money.
Rossi allowed the E-Cat to be tested a dozen times, and it was tested many other times in private. The technology works.Skipjack wrote:Which is absolutely not the case here! Again, there is absolutely no verifyable evidence that these devices work. None, nada, nihil, rien, nichts...was for your general attitude , not just for that one post.
(Like ivory tower academia vs. LENR)
Galileos theories were easily verifyable by anyone, all you had to do is look up at the sky and Galileo presented both his method of observation, his theory and his documentation of all that to the public.
Now please explain to me how I am supposed to verify Rossi's and Defkalion's eleged observations without them providing us with a method, where they provide us with a workable theory and where their documentation is! Do it now, or never, ever dare again to compare Rossi to Galileo!
Extraordinary claims do not require extraordinary evidence.
They only require the same evidence as anything else.
Demanding extraordinary evidence is ridiculous.
However, Rossi did provide extraordinary evidence with the dozen tests he performed in 2011, and the other tests he allowed in private.
The technology works and it is real.
They only require the same evidence as anything else.
Demanding extraordinary evidence is ridiculous.
However, Rossi did provide extraordinary evidence with the dozen tests he performed in 2011, and the other tests he allowed in private.
The technology works and it is real.
tomclarke wrote:Forgive me. This whole thread is idle speculation on the possibility that these people may have some novel technology.parallel wrote:CKay
Of course not. I base my view on facts not idle speculation like you & Skipjack.
Your positive view of this has no facts to back it up. While those calling scam are equally factless, the circumstantial evidence is strongly against Rossi.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I think the rossibots and neo-rossibots here ( neo = Rossi is a clown with nothing, but DFK have done it) vary between:
(1) it is not extraordinary because LENR has been proved elsewhere
and
(2) the rossi demonstrations so far are extraordinary evidence
Neither view is convincing.
Of course, if DFK are genuine, rather than being much cleverer scammers than rossi, we will get evidence from properly conducted tests with credible third party verification. They certainly sound much more professional than rossi. Want to bet on it?
Rossi has been able to get cold fusion to work. His systems work very well. However, the scientific community is mostly a cult that is closed minded to new ideas and concepts. The fact is that when the Rossi technology is being used around the world the mainstream scientific community will be exposed as being a bunch of closed minded psuedo-skeptics that do not deserve to keep their scientific credentials.parallel wrote:tomclarke,Evens, that DFK/Rossi can't get LENR working to an extent which would make science community sit up and take notice.
I'd settle for that too. I think the outcome will be crystal clear one way or the other.
LOL
You once again fail to answer my question, instead you are countering with an ad hominem attack that is completely unwarranted. I have been very open towards Rossi for a long time, if you read back. I have given him the benefit of the doubt countless times. I am however slowly getting fed up with charades, excuses, postponed dates, things that are happening but then not happening, things that are sold but not sold, universities that are testing but not testing. All this is very dubious, I am sorry.
We currently dont even know what exactly his technology is, nor is there a credible theory to explain it. Rossi himself stated that it is NOT WL theory, so dont even bother coming at me with this flawed peace of fiction that should have never passed peer review.
So what is happening? I have seen nothing happening. I can not confirm that something is happening in my own tests. I have no theory that I can verify the math of. I have absolutely NOTHING to work with other than the word of a hand full of people that again have nothing to show to proof their diligence when conducting the tests.As I stated on the previous page, you have a problem of not being able to tell the difference between something happening or not happening, so there is no point is debating with you.
You once again fail to answer my question, instead you are countering with an ad hominem attack that is completely unwarranted. I have been very open towards Rossi for a long time, if you read back. I have given him the benefit of the doubt countless times. I am however slowly getting fed up with charades, excuses, postponed dates, things that are happening but then not happening, things that are sold but not sold, universities that are testing but not testing. All this is very dubious, I am sorry.
None of these tests were performed well. They all lacked due dilligence.Rossi allowed the E-Cat to be tested a dozen times, and it was tested many other times in private. The technology works.
We currently dont even know what exactly his technology is, nor is there a credible theory to explain it. Rossi himself stated that it is NOT WL theory, so dont even bother coming at me with this flawed peace of fiction that should have never passed peer review.
nasonex,
It is hard to make such a sweeping conclusion. Science is suffering from "group think" in some areas like LENR and AGW, but the underlying problem is the drift towards favoring theory over experimental evidence. It used to be the other way around.
It is hard to make such a sweeping conclusion. Science is suffering from "group think" in some areas like LENR and AGW, but the underlying problem is the drift towards favoring theory over experimental evidence. It used to be the other way around.
Last edited by parallel on Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The tests were not performed as well as they could have been, but they did confirm massive excess heat.
A technology does not have to pass peer review to be real. The whole peer review system is rigged. If I ever came up with a technology that was revolutionary, I would not have it "peer reviewed." I would do the same thing that Rossi is doing...
1) Openly test it to show that it is real. (Although I would test it a little better than he did.)
2) Sell early units or licenses to "early adoptors" so I could have the money to build a factory.
3) Build hundreds of thousands or millions of units to the public.
I would bypass the "mainstream" scientific community and peer review all together.
A technology does not have to pass peer review to be real. The whole peer review system is rigged. If I ever came up with a technology that was revolutionary, I would not have it "peer reviewed." I would do the same thing that Rossi is doing...
1) Openly test it to show that it is real. (Although I would test it a little better than he did.)
2) Sell early units or licenses to "early adoptors" so I could have the money to build a factory.
3) Build hundreds of thousands or millions of units to the public.
I would bypass the "mainstream" scientific community and peer review all together.
It is worse than that. The majority of scientists are very close minded to concepts that are truly "outside of the box."parallel wrote:nasonex,
It is hard to make such a sweeping conclusion. Science is suffering from "group think" in some areas like LENR and AGW, but the underlying problem is the drift towards favoring theory over experimental evidence. It used to be the other way around.
I agree with you that science is suffering from group think. Part of it is that science is taught as a religion. The academic world preaches this religion. Those who go against the religion are scared of being excommunicated.
Please provide a list of which demonstrations proved excess heat.nasonex wrote:The tests were not performed as well as they could have been, but they did confirm massive excess heat.
A technology does not have to pass peer review to be real. The whole peer review system is rigged. If I ever came up with a technology that was revolutionary, I would not have it "peer reviewed." I would do the same thing that Rossi is doing...
1) Openly test it to show that it is real. (Although I would test it a little better than he did.)
2) Sell early units or licenses to "early adoptors" so I could have the money to build a factory.
3) Build hundreds of thousands or millions of units to the public.
I would bypass the "mainstream" scientific community and peer review all together.
1. Krivit demo = That one was obvious there was no excess heat. For the given claimed heat, the steam coming out the hose would have flooded the floor in seconds. The steam should've looked like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgiDnvHOltw
2. Nasa demo = Ecat leaked and the demo was called off.
3. October Customer demo = He had a rather large generator which surprise, surprise had the same output power as the claimed output power of the ecat. This isn't conclusive of course, but since no data containing pre-sustained mode input power, sustained mode input and output, and an elongated test of more than 3.5Hrs, we're stuck scratching our heads asking what the point was....
So which demonstration showed conclusive excess heat? Give a date, video, and proper data.
I'm not going to play games with you.
The tests in 2011 showed conclusive proof of excess heat.
There were a couple tests I am aware of that had problems due to leaking water. However, test after test showed excess heat.
Perhaps my favorite example is the 18 hour test performed by Dr. Levi in which the device produced 10 to 15 kilowatts of constant output. The output also spiked at one point to 120-130 kilowatts, which required them to throttle down the system. This was a simple test in which the temperature of water was increased.
Of course like most of the pseudo-skeptics with agendas, you will probably claim that we cannot trust the data because Dr. Levi is involved in a conspiracy with Rossi.
The tests in 2011 showed conclusive proof of excess heat.
There were a couple tests I am aware of that had problems due to leaking water. However, test after test showed excess heat.
Perhaps my favorite example is the 18 hour test performed by Dr. Levi in which the device produced 10 to 15 kilowatts of constant output. The output also spiked at one point to 120-130 kilowatts, which required them to throttle down the system. This was a simple test in which the temperature of water was increased.
Of course like most of the pseudo-skeptics with agendas, you will probably claim that we cannot trust the data because Dr. Levi is involved in a conspiracy with Rossi.
nasonex,
If you are going to post around here you had better be prepared to back yourself up with facts and analysis.
Making sweeping statements, then repeating them over and over is a good way to get yourself ignored.
You sound like a Rossibot.
Critically defend what you say if you want any game here. If you do not, you will become one of two things, completely ignored, or a play toy for veteran forum members to kick around.
If you have something useful to add, please, jump in. If you are going to be a Rossibot, and add nothing of substance, go somewhere else.
Rossi has most certainly not provided any evidence that he has what he claims. If you think he has, then you are not evaluating his "tests" in a comprehensive critical manner. Middleschool science students do a better job setting up and running experiments than Rossi has. All the man needs to do is heat a bucket of water. It couldn't get any more simpler. He refuses. This is the baseline truth in all of the drama. All the speculation is around why.
Cite and analyze an Ecat run and prove your point. I posit that you cannot do so, and will be reduced to handwaving, speculation and emotional discourse. This will eventually lead to you insulting someone, and then declaring that non-believers are bad, and not just bad, but puppets and snakes sharing in a global conspiracy to deny real science.
Have at it.
Edit: my usual plethora of typos.
If you are going to post around here you had better be prepared to back yourself up with facts and analysis.
Making sweeping statements, then repeating them over and over is a good way to get yourself ignored.
You sound like a Rossibot.
Critically defend what you say if you want any game here. If you do not, you will become one of two things, completely ignored, or a play toy for veteran forum members to kick around.
If you have something useful to add, please, jump in. If you are going to be a Rossibot, and add nothing of substance, go somewhere else.
Rossi has most certainly not provided any evidence that he has what he claims. If you think he has, then you are not evaluating his "tests" in a comprehensive critical manner. Middleschool science students do a better job setting up and running experiments than Rossi has. All the man needs to do is heat a bucket of water. It couldn't get any more simpler. He refuses. This is the baseline truth in all of the drama. All the speculation is around why.
Cite and analyze an Ecat run and prove your point. I posit that you cannot do so, and will be reduced to handwaving, speculation and emotional discourse. This will eventually lead to you insulting someone, and then declaring that non-believers are bad, and not just bad, but puppets and snakes sharing in a global conspiracy to deny real science.
Have at it.
Edit: my usual plethora of typos.
Last edited by ladajo on Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
Since Dr. Levi's data isn't available, I remain unconvinced. Show me the data report and I'll look though it. If you want to argue with the big boys you gotta cite data, not rumors and hearsay. Repeating a comment does not make it true. So as I requested previously, cite any test with data. I'll gladly read through any reports.nasonex wrote:I'm not going to play games with you.
The tests in 2011 showed conclusive proof of excess heat.
There were a couple tests I am aware of that had problems due to leaking water. However, test after test showed excess heat.
Perhaps my favorite example is the 18 hour test performed by Dr. Levi in which the device produced 10 to 15 kilowatts of constant output. The output also spiked at one point to 120-130 kilowatts, which required them to throttle down the system. This was a simple test in which the temperature of water was increased.
Of course like most of the pseudo-skeptics with agendas, you will probably claim that we cannot trust the data because Dr. Levi is involved in a conspiracy with Rossi.
LikeSince Dr. Levi's data isn't available, I remain unconvinced. Show me the data report and I'll look though it. If you want to argue with the big boys you gotta cite data, not rumors and hearsay. Repeating a comment does not make it true. So as I requested previously, cite any test with data. I'll gladly read through any reports.
