SpaceX News

[Carl White]

Is Starship in peril of turning into a flop?

Elon Musk tweeted that they have no solution to loss of heat shield tiles, despite pouring much effort into it. Losing even one tile could be fatal to a Starship.

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1796049014938357932

[RERT]

Two layers, half thickness, offset laterally.

[Giorgio]

Is Starship in peril of turning into a flop?

Elon Musk tweeted that they have no solution to loss of heat shield tiles, despite pouring much effort into it. Losing even one tile could be fatal to a Starship.

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1796049014938357932

SpaceX tiles main constituent is fibrous silica, very similar to the one used on the Space shuttle and hence they suffer from the same issue, which is a good compression value, but a bad tensile and shear value.
Considering the amount and the intensity of the pressure waves that traverse those tiles during the different engines ignitions is already impressive that most of them stay in place.
Space shuttle tiles was bonded to the body of the Shuttle to prevent the loss of the tile even if it cracked under the tensile and share forces induced by the vibrations and the system worked well but (as we all know) it was a maintenance nightmare.
SpaceX choose to go with a 3 pin solution probably counting on the fact that even if the tile would wobble as a jelly under the vibrations, the presence and the "position" of the 3 pins would ensure that at least two of them would always be holding the tile in place and oppose the tensile forces generated by the propagating wave. I have to say that the first time i heard about it I also thought it was a pretty smart idea.

It is now clear there is much more going on inside those tiles when the vibrations hits them and that they need to redesign the tile structure or the whole heat shield system itself. Yet I do not think that this will be the reason that will stop Starship.

[mvanwink5]

the sound vibrations emanating from the engines is enormous & the thin stainless steel Starship walls must surely vibrate as a result. The tiles to survive must be cushioned from the ship's metal skin, yet must be attached. It would seem to be a conundrum. What would seem to be needed is a rubber tile, but that kind of material would also need to insulate from reentry heat.

Well, Elon & team has given it more thought with more engineering data, as others in the field over the many decades. Perhaps someone in his group has a plan B?

But what about catching the Starship? As it is it took special designs to be able to lift the Starship with their 'Two Point Lifting Rig' & engaging the rig takes special care to avoid damaging the tiles. We have seen them roll out the lifting rig.

Then there is the booster, which uses 2 pins for lifting.

A realist would land with legs, succeed with legs first, then move on to the impossible, meanwhile a reusable rocket would be making money...IMO.

[KitemanSA]

We will see with IFT 5. Will the combined stronger tile and ablative substrate work? WWS.
Rapid design, build, test… that is their philosophy. A good one I think!

[ladajo]

Seems to be some permitting drama for flight 5, tied to a few folks (Anti-Elon Crowd?) stirring the EPA pot.
SpaceX posted a detailed bitch about it.
spacex.com/updates

September 10, 2024
STARSHIPS ARE MEANT TO FLY

[Giorgio]

Seems to be some permitting drama for flight 5, tied to a few folks (Anti-Elon Crowd?) stirring the EPA pot.

EPA is the American Taleban......

[ladajo]

That made me smile.
They are certainly a well employed Lawfare capability to punish selected targets.

[Carl White]

Someone took a sword to the red tape. SpaceX has a permit to launch IFT-5 on Sunday Oct. 13th (launch window opens at 8 am Eastern).

[Skipjack]

Good for them!
The red tape in the US will the downfall of this country! The Chinese (and the Russians to a lesser extent) are not waiting for us!
Let's hope that SpaceX can deliver! I do not agree with Musk on many things (especially his politics) but man! He put the US back on the map in terms of manufacturing power. No one(!) else did.

[Giorgio]

That booster re-entry and the tower catch that just happened was one of the most impressive thing I have seen in my whole life.

We are witnessing history in the making.

[Skipjack]

Absolutely insane engineering there! I did not believe they would be able to do it at the very first attempt but they did!
Science Fiction is boring in comparison!

[usesbiggerwords]

Absolutely insane engineering there! I did not believe they would be able to do it at the very first attempt but they did!
Science Fiction is boring in comparison!

Watching the video shot from the top of the tower with the arms ever so gently squeezing the booster, the controls team needs a raise and membership in the National Academy of Engineering. Outstanding!

[ladajo]

So cool!
Can't wait for second stage catch!

[mvanwink5]

Booster has two 7 to 8 inch catch pins, and no severe reentry plasma heating issue for them, but for Starship to have catch pins that are exposed to the hot reentry plasma, that would be trouble. I suppose Sx could make the pins extend after reentry, but so far we have not seen them, nor have I heard of such an effort. Perhaps someone here has heard of how this issue will be solved?