1st Superconducting High-beta Device

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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tannerhorne
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Re: 1st Superconducting High-beta Device

Postby tannerhorne » Mon May 07, 2018 5:16 pm

Unfortunately I can't go more detail about the potential well. I can say though that with respect to cooling LN2 is insufficient. It will work for initial testing but it is not going to get us where we need to be.

ladajo
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Re: 1st Superconducting High-beta Device

Postby ladajo » Mon May 07, 2018 6:29 pm

Unfortunately I can't go more detail about the potential well.


Ok, why?

Can't you at least talk about the approach you intend? I think you can do that at least, without the specifics you seem to be implying you are protecting? Or have I read you wrong?
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

paperburn1
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Re: 1st Superconducting High-beta Device

Postby paperburn1 » Mon May 07, 2018 9:21 pm

Tom Ligon wrote:If liquid helium is too hard to manage in an industrial environment, what does that say about tokomak designs based on such magnets?


Tokomak need large amount of He2. The ITER has a cooling plant designed to condense 12000 liters per hour back into wet He2 per hour.
so just as a loose boot strap the USA has about one billion cubic meters of helium or about 700 million liters of the cool stuff to play with in science.
As a number 12000 liters (picked out of my backside) lets say that is the number of liters required for each power plant. That would be enough juice for 57000 power plants with no losses. Currently their are about 65000 power plants in the world.
As leaky as this stuff is I would find it hard to accept that in a typical power plant environment there would not be any losses. We can not even make a tight system for Freon or ammonia that would last for years without jacking the cost though the roof. This leads me to think liquid nitrogen will be the go to coolant if at all possible.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

tannerhorne
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Re: 1st Superconducting High-beta Device

Postby tannerhorne » Wed May 09, 2018 11:54 pm

In regards to the potential well, we are making the second generation device able to run in many different configurations in order to determine which has the best performance. With the well there are 2-3 different proprietary methods are on the docket to try.

The first generation device had an injection current of 3A which was pretty impressive. It may not be adventitious to run a strong well with the grid, I'm sure like everything it will be a balancing act.

ladajo
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Re: 1st Superconducting High-beta Device

Postby ladajo » Thu May 10, 2018 11:36 am

Thanks. How well have you studied the most current public releases from EMC2?
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

tannerhorne
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Re: 1st Superconducting High-beta Device

Postby tannerhorne » Thu May 10, 2018 1:21 pm

Yes, thanks, I certainly have! Not only that, I have been in contact with almost every group and specialist in the world that could bring useful knowledge to the project.

ladajo
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Re: 1st Superconducting High-beta Device

Postby ladajo » Thu May 10, 2018 4:34 pm

And you are still thinking to bias the grids?
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

paperburn1
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Re: 1st Superconducting High-beta Device

Postby paperburn1 » Fri May 11, 2018 2:30 am

There are still a lot of schools of thought that believe grid biasing is the only path to net plus operation.... I think park may be on to something .
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

tannerhorne
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Re: 1st Superconducting High-beta Device

Postby tannerhorne » Fri May 11, 2018 9:03 pm

I agree, yes the 2nd gen will have the grid able to be biased. We are going to do many configurations and a large DOE to determine the best configuration then put all the eggs in that basket.

crowberry
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Re: 1st Superconducting High-beta Device

Postby crowberry » Mon May 14, 2018 7:33 am

What kind of instrumentation do you have on your current device? What value of beta have you measured on your current device?

What instrumentation are you planning to have on your next device?

Have you published anything on your current device? Do you plan to publish results achieved with the next device?

tannerhorne
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Re: 1st Superconducting High-beta Device

Postby tannerhorne » Thu May 17, 2018 2:37 am

Nothing published. All I can say is I'd love to publish within the year, but you know everything takes ~3.141592653589793 times (JPL says that is generally enough precision) as long as you want it to. :)

tannerhorne
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Re: 1st Superconducting High-beta Device

Postby tannerhorne » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:10 pm

New 2nd gen chamber back from paint! Now the real works starts.
newchamber.jpg
newchamber.jpg (54.6 KiB) Viewed 2294 times

happyjack27
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Re: 1st Superconducting High-beta Device

Postby happyjack27 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:15 am

* the earlier picture shows the plasma I glow mode. I assume that's just so we can see it, and that vacuum pressure is actually much higher.
* I'm seeing largely a layered 2D configuration. So it makes me wonder:
** what is the theory of confinement? Expected confinement time?
** what kind of data are you hoping to collect? I guess this harks back to someone earlier question about diagnostica and ports and measurenents.

Of course I don't mean to pry and just say it's classified or whatever...i'm just a random person being curious and nosy.

tannerhorne
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Re: 1st Superconducting High-beta Device

Postby tannerhorne » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:07 pm

Happyjack,

Thanks for your questions and good observation. I will answer what I can. In order to visualize the plasma and field the pressure must be fairly high, not necessarily an operating condition. Generally, in any of these type of containment systems, Polywell, or even LM, there has to be a minimum amount of plasma to generate increased beta conditions. That being said, the higher the pressure the more interaction you have with cold gas increasing ion-ion thermalization. This is probably the most significant loss mechanism. We will attempt to mitigate this as much as possible.

This system was designed to not only be able to run continuously, but in varied operating conditions and pressure is one of them. This is another significant capability we have. We can operate the first generation system from 1 torr to below 10^-8 torr and the second gen will be similar but limited to 10^-7 torr.

What do you mean by 2D configuration? The video and pictures you see are of the spindle or biconic cusp configuration. This is a good test bed for the technology and "simple" to construct: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biconic_cusp It is representative enough of many designs and a great place to start. I think that every plasma researcher should have a superconducting biconic cusp device at their disposal and would be happy to produce a commercial system if there was a market.

Our confinement system has cusps, but is geometrically different from previous designs. As for the measurements the main goal is energy efficiency, energy in, energy out. The higher the number the better! Come on lucky 1.0, keep dreaming!

Tanner

Tom Ligon
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Re: 1st Superconducting High-beta Device

Postby Tom Ligon » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:44 pm

As I recall Dr. Park's talks a few years ago, the beta = 1 condition with 5T superconducting magnets suggested a plasma pressure of some stupendous number like 120 atmospheres! High-performance steam boiler stuff!

Dr. Bussard was always concerned with fast ion, slow neutral interactions, which produce a slow ion and a fast neutral. The neutral cannot be trapped and is lost.


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