New John Goodenough battery with high (too high?) energy density

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Carl White
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New John Goodenough battery with high (too high?) energy density

Postby Carl White » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:55 am

"Now John Goodenough, the 94-year-old father of the lithium-ion battery, is claiming a novel solution as a blockbuster advance."

"If it proves out, the invention could allow electric cars to compete with conventional vehicles on sticker price. The improbable solution, described in a new paper from Goodenough and three co-authors, has drawn intense interest from leading science and technology publications. He estimates that the solution could store five to ten times as much energy as current standard lithium-ion batteries."

"“If anyone but Goodenough published this, I would be, well, it’s hard to find a polite word,” Daniel Steingart, a professor at Princeton, told Quartz."

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/03/ ... modynamics

Link to the paper's abstract in the journal: http://pubs.rsc.org/en/Content/ArticleL ... ivAbstract

Patent filing link: https://www.google.com/patents/US20160368777

Skipjack
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Re: New John Goodenough battery with high (too high?) energy density

Postby Skipjack » Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:09 am

If it proves out...

Considering how many revolutionary battery technologies have been announced over the past 15 years that somehow still have not surfaced yet, I am not holding my breath for that one either.

krenshala
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Re: New John Goodenough battery with high (too high?) energy density

Postby krenshala » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:22 pm

in the abstract someone wrote:This strategy is demonstrated with a solid electrolyte that not only is wet by the metallic anode, but also has a dielectric constant capable of creating a large electric-double-layer capacitance at the two electrode/electrolyte interfaces. The result is a safe, low-cost, lithium or sodium rechargeable battery of high energy density and long cycle life.

This makes me think part of the gains are the device also acting as a capacitor, and not just as a battery. Assuming they work, I hope a version of this is available to replace the battery in my Volt once it gets old enough to need replacing. ;)

edit: and reading over teh linked patent, it definitely looks like they have made (or tried to make) a combination battery/capacitor. very interesting.

Skipjack
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Re: New John Goodenough battery with high (too high?) energy density

Postby Skipjack » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:21 pm

krenshala wrote:edit: and reading over teh linked patent, it definitely looks like they have made (or tried to make) a combination battery/capacitor. very interesting.

I would not want to see that one short in a car accident!

Carl White
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Re: New John Goodenough battery with high (too high?) energy density

Postby Carl White » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:05 am

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/06/26/th ... y-done-it/

Link to his paper published in the Journal of the American Chemical Society early in the article.

Carl White
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Re: New John Goodenough battery with high (too high?) energy density

Postby Carl White » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:06 am

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/06/26/th ... y-done-it/

There's a link to his paper (published in the Journal of the American Chemical Society) early in the article.

Skipjack
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Re: New John Goodenough battery with high (too high?) energy density

Postby Skipjack » Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:59 pm

So, not really much new information here. Everything still looks inconclusive and potentially overhyped.

Munchausen
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Re: New John Goodenough battery with high (too high?) energy density

Postby Munchausen » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:05 pm

The paper has drawn criticism from other battery researchers, who tell Axios one aspect of the new battery cells — the relative dielectric constant — is higher than ever before recorded in any material known to science.


No bold guess that Elon won't get a cell...

Skipjack
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Re: New John Goodenough battery with high (too high?) energy density

Postby Skipjack » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:58 pm

Munchausen wrote:
The paper has drawn criticism from other battery researchers, who tell Axios one aspect of the new battery cells — the relative dielectric constant — is higher than ever before recorded in any material known to science.


No bold guess that Elon won't get a cell...

What makes you say that? From what I understand Musk has called for people to bring their new battery tech for review by Tesla.

Munchausen
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Re: New John Goodenough battery with high (too high?) energy density

Postby Munchausen » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:19 pm

What makes you say that? From what I understand Musk has called for people to bring their new battery tech for review by Tesla.


Why? A simple probability calculation: How many battery breakthroughs a week do we have? How many find their way into a working commercially available unit?

And in this particular case we do have a statement on a fundamental value of a parameter that the peers consider beyond reasonable limits.

This is mostly the case. If you take the time to sift through the publications you mostly find that they omit something or do their testing in a dubious way.

No mentioning that their battery needs to be kept at 80 C to function...Why do they test their beatiful new solid polymer electrolyte at 0,2 C and 30 C? No conductivity/temperature diagram, hmmm.. What happened to that Li-S battery with "excellent cyclability" on the 101 cycle? So they baked those Si nanospherules in Ar and 500 C for 24 h....? Why only half cell testing?

And so on.

What, however, is encouraging is the volume and breadth of the work. A lot better than 20 years ago. Energy storage is being taken seriously those days.

One day we might hear Elon yell "Halleluja, brothers and sisters, I have seen the light" on a press conferens. But probably not this time.

Skipjack
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Re: New John Goodenough battery with high (too high?) energy density

Postby Skipjack » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:01 am

Ah, that's what you meant. Misunderstood your earlier post.

KitemanSA
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Re: New John Goodenough battery with high (too high?) energy density

Postby KitemanSA » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:59 pm

Munchausen wrote:Why? A simple probability calculation: How many battery breakthroughs a week do we have? How many find their way into a working commercially available unit?

Your maths are a bit off there. The numerator should be “How many battery breakthroughs a week by the original inventor of the Li-ion battery”.


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