10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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seedload
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Re: Here comes the call for investment in LENR

Postby seedload » Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:00 pm

KitemanSA wrote:
MSimon wrote: Me? I think Rossi is a fraud. And a very good one. I believe this game has gone on longer than EEStor.
I tend to agree with your "thought" except I haven't ruled out delusion nor a SMALL likelihood that he might be on to something.

You stated, you "think" he is a fraud". The others state categorically that "he is a fraud". Where is their proof?

I suspect you have seen sufficient indicators that you "think" he is a fraud. Fair enough.
I "think" he is a fraud or a megalomaniac, or maybe just with a very remote likelihood a miracle might be happening and he might be right.


Inane.

I think that the chances that he is anything other than a fraud are so infinitesimally small that we might as well just say "he is a fraud". You're consumed with the idea that we must all acknowledge the sliver of possibility that we are wrong in our assessment or we are somehow being intellectually dishonest, as if this tiny bit of confession on our part would somehow make any difference to the meat of the conversation.

From the start I have said that the chances he is legit are approaching zero. It seems as your assessment slides closer towards those who share my opinion, you get more and more aggressive about the distinction between simple statement of fraud and acknowledgement of a tiny chance of legitimacy.

My take is that, as the chance that we were right all along gets more obvious, you are becoming increasingly desperate to point out minor ways in which we were wrong, extending your arguments into the linguistic, the inane, and the philosophical.

Maybe you should just play the "in bed" game except you should add "but I might be wrong" to the end of every sentence you read. Rossi is a fraud 'but I might be wrong'. Rossi lies 'but I might be wrong'. Rossi is a tool 'but I might be wrong'. If you do this then maybe you will feel better. Otherwise, I really don't know how to help you.
Stick the thing in a tub of water! Sheesh!

Ivy Matt
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Postby Ivy Matt » Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:19 pm

By now I think it should be obvious that Rossi doesn't have the slightest clue what sort of reaction is supposed to be taking place inside his E-Cat, but I might be wrong.
Temperature, density, confinement time: pick any two.

Ivy Matt
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Postby Ivy Matt » Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:30 pm

I thought ladajo might appreciate this.
Temperature, density, confinement time: pick any two.

ladajo
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Postby ladajo » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:39 pm

HAH!

Now that is funny. Talk about grasping at straws...
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Carl White
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Postby Carl White » Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:30 pm

From PESN:

Defkalion is still in the middle of doing 3rd party testing at its facility. The tests are going very well, with huge OU measured. Reports are expected mid April, after all the 7 groups have completed their testing.

-- Sterling Allan, from first-hand sources.


http://pesn.com/2012/03/15/9602053_E-Ca ... y_March15/

I'm posting because I'm not quite sure what OU are. I tried Google and it suggested Odour Units, which is really quite funny given the context. Hold your noses!

Kahuna
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Postby Kahuna » Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:42 pm

Carl White wrote:From PESN:

Defkalion is still in the middle of doing 3rd party testing at its facility. The tests are going very well, with huge OU measured. Reports are expected mid April, after all the 7 groups have completed their testing.

-- Sterling Allan, from first-hand sources.


http://pesn.com/2012/03/15/9602053_E-Ca ... y_March15/

I'm posting because I'm not quite sure what OU are. I tried Google and it suggested Odour Units, which is really quite funny given the context. Hold your noses!


Over Unity.

FWIW, the source of Allan's comment are the same guys who Mark Dansie knows and were on one of the invited test teams in Greece. Mark says he is under NDA with the group and does not know when/if they or DGT will publish their results, but that the members of the team are credible, competent and independent and that they actually tested a reactor furnished by DGT in Greece. Some say that DGT is planning to announce a delay in their test program for whatever reason.

Mark Dansie often challenges Sterling Allan things (the skeptic vs. the natural believer) so when they both agree on something, its at least worth watching IMO.

KitemanSA
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Postby KitemanSA » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:48 pm

Ivy Matt wrote:By now I think it should be obvious that Rossi doesn't have the slightest clue what sort of reaction is supposed to be taking place inside his E-Cat, but I might be wrong.
Concur!

Axil
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Postby Axil » Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:08 am

Saying Rossi is a fraud or a scammer is too simplistic; the situation is more complicated.

As time goes on and the evidence mounts, I am almost sure that Rossi’s customer is the US Navy.

Today throughout the military industrial complex, it is standard practice to cover the secret systems that the military is developing to deny counter force advantage to potential enemies. With the acceptance of the Rossi reactor for naval development, spy craft is now pressed to advantage in all its varied and potent forms both known and clandestine to protect the Rossi technology.

One of the tricks that the military uses is misdirection by covering actual systems development with the ridiculous.

Recall from the recent past how the United States Air Force protected the F-117 Stealth Fighter and B-2 Stealth Bomber technologies with a cunning decade’s long campaign of disinformation and obfuscation:

Spy and stealth planes--many with bizarre, bat-shaped wings, others with triangular silhouettes that inspirer otherworldly designs in the minds of the general public--have long been cultivated by the military: the defense intelligence agency and the CIA. UFO sightings and lore and their official denials, feed rumors that the government isn't telling us about alien ships. The CIA estimates that over half of the UFOs reported from the '50s through the '60s were U-2 and SR-71 spy planes.

At the time, the Air Force misled the public and the media to protect these Cold War programs; even today it's possible the government's responses to current sightings of classified craft--whether manned or remotely operated--are equally evasive. The result is an ongoing source of UFO reports and conspiracy theories. The public observations of armadas of secret Earth-built Air Force craft that have likely lit up 911 switchboards over the years still remain largely unknown in the minds and lives of the general public.


Cold fusion is the ideal framework for a similar campaign of disinformation as a cover for advance Ni-H powered weapons systems.

In like manner, Rossi’s eccentric behavior feeds into the kooky public perception that undercuts cold fusion. Rossi is an engineering savant who I believe to be a high functioning autistic with limited and otherwise distorted social skills with an unbalanced personality. He is an ideal pawn of the DOD to discredit and illegitimatize systems development of the Rossi reactor by the Navy.

Because Rossi is a foreign national, the best way to keep him under control is to draw him in via a business relationship requiring NDA while covertly discrediting him by fostering and inspiring his own kooky words and actions.

Rossi is now a puppet of the US navy whose unbalanced nature is susceptible to covert psychological manipulation.

The Navy will give Rossi all the rope he can take in his eccentric public behavior in an effort to poison the E-Cat story as a cover for what the Navy is actually doing.

The Navy will feed Rossi’s fantasies and delusions with lies about building automated plants producing millions of E-Cat units, while secretly perfecting the core of his genius into a potent weapons system.

Over time if all goes as intended, Rossi will quietly fade from the scene as the Navy continues to undercut and delegitimize Rossi’s commercial reactor development; while the US government paints anyone that believes that cold fusion is real as a kook in Rossi’s mold, not only to protect defense secrets but to maintain the economic continuity and stability of the fossil fuel economy that has served the US so well from disruptive turbulence.

Currently, all cold fusion DOD research has gone black under the cover of this maskirovka.

In a few decades, when the oil is much depleted and the natural gas from US shale deposits are petered out, cold fusion will emerge from the shadows of the skunk-works defense labs to continue the hegemony of the US and its oil producing allies.


For all of us who own substantial holdings of oil and gas stocks, this is good news…the best. We can anticipate continued lucrative distributions of dividends into the indeterminate future with no prospect of disruptions or diminishment.

At this juncture from a political perspective, the president of the US who faces the uncertainty of reelection from the triviality of rising gas prices would be out of his mind to turn the world of energy on its head by revealing Rossi’s world shaking energy breakthrough.

Rossi has become a lowly chad being crushed inside the clockworks of the game of the century.

In a more formidable task, I look forward with great interest in how the covert operatives of US power projection will deal with discrediting the DGT situation.

Joseph Chikva
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Postby Joseph Chikva » Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:41 am

Axil wrote:As time goes on and the evidence mounts, I am almost sure that Rossi’s customer is the US Navy.

Today throughout the military industrial complex, it is standard practice to cover the secret systems that the military is developing to deny counter force advantage to potential enemies.
Are you USA citizen? If so you may be threatened with legal prosecution for disclosure of military secret. :)
B-2 and F-117? Do you know how many companies were involved in their development? Despite all F-117 is a flying trough and not a good fighter.
What do you think, does potential enemies Russia and China not aware on development process?
But till now they have not nothing similar. Because they have not neither such technology level nor financial strength (only Russia has not strength but China has not enough level yet).
And who is Mr. Rossi? Not a half educated poor man who has already been punished for a swindle? I saw how he calculated the power of his "5 kW device". And, yes, you can use as power unit w*h/h. But I am engineer and I won't employ worker if I see how awkwardly he holds the wrench. And for me Rossi's "w*h/h" means his lack of skill.
US Navy? Even municipal waste collection service in US can't be his customer.

Ivy Matt
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Postby Ivy Matt » Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:45 am

Axil, nice to see you prefaced your remarks with "I am almost sure" this time.
Temperature, density, confinement time: pick any two.

Ivy Matt
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Postby Ivy Matt » Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:48 am

KitemanSA wrote:
Ivy Matt wrote:By now I think it should be obvious that Rossi doesn't have the slightest clue what sort of reaction is supposed to be taking place inside his E-Cat, but I might be wrong.
Concur!

Interesting. Are you agreeing with the "I might be wrong" part, or do you have some kind of conjecture percolating?
Temperature, density, confinement time: pick any two.

KitemanSA
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Postby KitemanSA » Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:59 am

Joseph Chikva wrote:
Axil wrote:As time goes on and the evidence mounts, I am almost sure that Rossi’s customer is the US Navy.

Today throughout the military industrial complex, it is standard practice to cover the secret systems that the military is developing to deny counter force advantage to potential enemies.
Are you USA citizen? If so you may be threatened with legal prosecution for disclosure of military secret. :)
Only if he "knows or should have reason to know" the information is "classified", as opposed to just "dark" like Polywell. And he can SPECULATE about anything he likes.

But if this IS a nuclear reaction and if it IS considered "fusion", then international law prohibits any results be given a "Classified" status.

Hmmm. Since Axil has changed his tone a bit, might that be taken as an indicator that he speculated too close to the truth, got a visit from the FBI and was able to demonstrate that it was all speculation? Might they then have told him to stop giving up secrets but not to change his activity pattern too much? A scenario similar to this happened early in the Manhattan project with a Science Fiction editor/publisher. :lol: :oops:

Emoticons added to indict the intended offhand humorous nature of the last paragraph.
Last edited by KitemanSA on Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

stefanbanev
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Postby stefanbanev » Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:50 pm

Axil wrote:Saying Rossi is a fraud or a scammer is too simplistic; the situation is more complicated.

As time goes on and the evidence mounts, I am almost sure that Rossi’s customer is the US Navy.
.......
In a more formidable task, I look forward with great interest in how the covert operatives of US power projection will deal with discrediting the DGT situation.


You give too much credits to CIA ;o) They did so many quite stupid mistakes in the past; its operation is driven by local multiple mutually-conflicting interests to be coherent... even such scenario is possible in principle still its practical execution will face DGT-like issues in many forms. I'm curious what CIA may do about such countries as Latvia, Estonia etc... If LENR really offers such performance as claimed by DGT/Rossi then the attempt to cover it up may at most slightly delay it (couple years...)

Joseph Chikva
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Postby Joseph Chikva » Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:04 am

stefanbanev wrote:You give too much credits to CIA ;o) They did so many quite stupid mistakes in the past;...

I'm curious what CIA may do about such countries as Latvia, Estonia etc...
They forgot to ask you how and where they should conduct their activity.
But they regularly send you the reports with results of their missions and especially about stupid failures. :)

tomclarke
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Postby tomclarke » Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:08 am

Axil wrote:Saying Rossi is a fraud or a scammer is too simplistic; the situation is more complicated.

As time goes on and the evidence mounts, I am almost sure that Rossi’s customer is the US Navy.



Cold fusion is the ideal framework for a similar campaign of disinformation as a cover for advance Ni-H powered weapons systems.

In like manner, Rossi’s eccentric behavior feeds into the kooky public perception that undercuts cold fusion. Rossi is an engineering savant who I believe to be a high functioning autistic with limited and otherwise distorted social skills with an unbalanced personality. He is an ideal pawn of the DOD to discredit and illegitimatize systems development of the Rossi reactor by the Navy.


Currently, all cold fusion DOD research has gone black under the cover of this maskirovka.



Quoting US military coverup is the last refuge of internet kooks. Roswell etc.

Of course there can be US military secrets. But Rossi's stuff is no way secret, and you have zero evidence that US military is a Rossi customer. In fact zero evidence Rossi has any credible cusotmers.

Has it occurred to you that the reason exciting sounding CF work "goes black" when tested by reputable people (NASA, Navy, etc) is that it does not work?

Incidentally the SPAWAR work on CF is well published, not hidden, and as with all other such work inconclusive. Not surprising it has recently been axed.

Finally, you could not rule out US military interest in something kooky and futile. Goats & psi, etc.


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