Widom Larsen (WL-) Theory, LENR, CF (Rossi, etc)

Discuss how polywell fusion works; share theoretical questions and answers.

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Giorgio
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Post by Giorgio »

ladajo wrote:But again, if he is doing conventional enrichment, what does he or his unindentified supplier do with the waste? That should be visible somehow.
Unless he purchases the needed material from an external supplier and just limits himself to mix the powders.

Giorgio
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Post by Giorgio »

KitemanSA wrote:Anyone know if this has been done? If not, anyone know someone who can DO it?
As far as I know i never read about a similar test.
I passed the idea along to a couple of contacts to get their opinion about it.

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

Giorgio wrote:
ladajo wrote:But again, if he is doing conventional enrichment, what does he or his unindentified supplier do with the waste? That should be visible somehow.
Unless he purchases the needed material from an external supplier and just limits himself to mix the powders.
SUPPOSE for the sake of this particular question that the Rossi Reactor works; would the cost of buying isotopically enhanced Ni powders still permit of an economical heat source?

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

Giorgio wrote:
KitemanSA wrote:Anyone know if this has been done? If not, anyone know someone who can DO it?
As far as I know i never read about a similar test.
I passed the idea along to a couple of contacts to get their opinion about it.
Thank you!!! :D
I do appreciate that.

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

tomclarke wrote: For x increase in Ni62 we should get x^sqrt(5.8/3.8 ) increase in Ni64
[from reading wiki on isotopic separation - pls correct me if wrong. BTW the cost sqrt(3.8/58 ) compares with the cost of srt(3/238 )=(0.1123) for U235, about 2 X cheaper than corresponding enrichment of U238. We are increasing Ni62 concentration by 30%.
Don't they normally do UF4? If so, that should be srt(3/314)=(.0977)? Ok, only a 15% change! :wink:
Last edited by KitemanSA on Tue May 24, 2011 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

Giorgio
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Post by Giorgio »

KitemanSA wrote:
Giorgio wrote:
ladajo wrote:But again, if he is doing conventional enrichment, what does he or his unindentified supplier do with the waste? That should be visible somehow.
Unless he purchases the needed material from an external supplier and just limits himself to mix the powders.
SUPPOSE for the sake of this particular question that the Rossi Reactor works; would the cost of buying isotopically enhanced Ni powders still permit of an economical heat source?
Dunno. Purified nickel powder can be in the range of 20-30 USD/Kg depending on average particle size. Price than can vary hugely according the isotope you are looking for.

ladajo
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Post by ladajo »

Giorgio wrote:
KitemanSA wrote:
Giorgio wrote: Unless he purchases the needed material from an external supplier and just limits himself to mix the powders.
SUPPOSE for the sake of this particular question that the Rossi Reactor works; would the cost of buying isotopically enhanced Ni powders still permit of an economical heat source?
Dunno. Purified nickel powder can be in the range of 20-30 USD/Kg depending on average particle size. Price than can vary hugely according the isotope you are looking for.
And again, it should be visible somehow that he is either buying pre-enriched and mixing it in, or they are selling off or disposing of enrichment waste. It is not cheap nor small scale to do "economical" enrichment (as we know it).

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

KitemanSA,

UF6 IIRC
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Giorgio
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Post by Giorgio »

ladajo wrote:And again, it should be visible somehow that he is either buying pre-enriched and mixing it in, or they are selling off or disposing of enrichment waste. It is not cheap nor small scale to do "economical" enrichment (as we know it).
Yep, for sure more expensive than the 10% increase in cost for charge that he claimed in one of the reply he gave on the forum.

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

MSimon wrote:UF6 IIRC
Danka. So the change would be slightly higher than 15%.

bhl
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Post by bhl »

KitemanSA wrote: SUPPOSE for the sake of this particular question that the Rossi Reactor works; would the cost of buying isotopically enhanced Ni powders still permit of an economical heat source?
Isotopically separated Ni is expensive.. about $10/mg for Ni-62 at 98% enrichment. (pm me if you want an a source.)

From what I've read, Rossi is doing some basic degassing of the Ni. Maybe just heating it, maybe heating it in a vacuum, or maybe heating it in nitrogen.

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

bhl wrote: Isotopically separated Ni is expensive.. about $10/mg for Ni-62 at 98% enrichment. (pm me if you want an a source.)
If I had some expertice at working with micro-particles of Ni, would I be able to melt them, suspend them in a vacuum, spin them VERY rapidly for a while, then spin them so fast that they split apart? If so, wouldn't the rapid spinning tend to push the denser isotopes to the outside? If the drops then spun apart, wouldn't the heavy isotope augmented drops (outer, higher speed) go further outward than the depleted drops (inner, slower...)?

With micro/nano particles, atypical things, like cheap isotope enrichment, (not seperation, SOME enrichment) may be possible.

IIRC, the enrichment needed to account for the CU would only be ~3x.

PS: An option to spinning them faster might be to let them fall onto a graphite fiber (or some such device) in such a way that the outer parts were shaved off and flung FAR outward and the inner part splushed more downward. Maybe the inner "depleted" part would sell for enough above the standard Nickel price to partially offset the cost of enriching the fuel.

Just a thought.

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

ladajo wrote: It is not cheap nor small scale to do "economical" enrichment (as we know it).
Working with micro-particles is NOT how most people know it. "Economical" enrichment may be small and cheap if you can work with micro-particles and the output enrichment level required is "as good as you can get this way". Please note that Rossi says he does enrichment, not enrichment to X % purity. "As good as you can get" with simple but poorly controllable methods can often be quite cheap.

Just saying.

ladajo
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Post by ladajo »

Fair enough.

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

bhl wrote: Isotopically separated Ni is expensive.. about $10/mg for Ni-62 at 98% enrichment. (pm me if you want an a source.)
So, $10000 per kg. Assuming 62Ni > 63 Cu, about 0.0106132% gets converted to energy. If my math is right, this is about 9.6TJ, or about 3E5 liters of gasoline. So, @~$1/ liter, this is about $300,000.00 dollars output for $10,000.00 of fuel. Seems a good deal to me!

Did I do my math right?
0.000106132*(3E8)^2 = 9.6E12 kg*m^2/sec^2.
1 L gasoline ~32MJ.
9.6E12/32E6 = 3E5.
==========
And as I lay my head down to sleep it strikes me:
OOPS!!! $10M, not $10k.

Not such a good deal after all!

Guess he will REALLY need to get a cheaper solution than building his powder from pure(ish) seperated isotopes. :oops:

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