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MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:09 pm

paulmarch wrote:
EricF wrote:
Stoney3K wrote:
paulmarch wrote:You can reverse the MLT thrust vector by simply flipping the phases of the applied MLT cap E-field and force rectification B-field by 180 degrees. That E- and B-field phase flip reverses the thrust vector 180 degrees at a goodly percentage of the speed of light. If you want to read more, see my STAIF-2007 paper on the "WarpStar-I" MLT powered Moon ship.


Can you vary the phase in a continuous manner (so you can vary the thrust 360 degrees) or just in a 'forward/reverse' manner?

The first situation would make a very compact single-engine craft which is very maneuverable, the latter would result in bigger, more sluggish turning two-engine craft because you need to throttle the two engines independently to turn.


Even if the thruster itself could only work in a forwards/backwards mode, could you still mount it in a housing that could rotate on two axis to achieve the effect you describe?


The MLT thrust varies with the sine function of the angle between the E-field and the B-field in the cap dielectric, so one can vary the MLT's thrust smoothly between zero thrust to say max +X axis thrust at 90 deg, back to zero thrust at 180 degrees, then on to a peak -X thrust at 270 degrees, and then back down to zero at 360/0 degrees. How smooth this thrust control is depends on the granularity of your phase control system.

Phase locked loops should allow you very fine grained control. Let me know if you need help in that area. I know some things and have had considerable experience.
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paulmarch
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Postby paulmarch » Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:16 pm

Skipjack wrote:
If your collegue Mr. Palfreyman was correct in his STAIF 2006 interview, negative mass is not achieved, but instead the decreasing mass signal slides toward zero on an asymptotic curve. Has this suspicion/critique of his been addressed?


Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. After all the nice gentleman was coauthoring the original paper, right?

Also, if negative mass can not be achieved, would the device still be useful?


We have not experimentally explored the wormhole issue you raise yet. The M-E derivation indicates that the delta mass density can go down to zero, but past that it is mute, so we will either have to develope a quantum gravity theory to see if creating the negative energy densities required for the FTL drives is really possible, or just wing it and start driving the M-E impulse drives into the M-E wormhole term's operating realm and see what happens. Andrew may be right, but then again I've seen several Quantum Vacuum Fluctuation papers that says he might be wrong. Only time and more experiments will tell us which is the true path, but there is still a good possibility that traversable wormholes and warp bubbles can be constructed through the use of the M-E and/or QVF sciences.
Paul March
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djolds1
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Postby djolds1 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:37 am

paulmarch wrote:We have not experimentally explored the wormhole issue you raise yet. The M-E derivation indicates that the delta mass density can go down to zero, but past that it is mute, so we will either have to develope a quantum gravity theory to see if creating the negative energy densities required for the FTL drives is really possible, or just wing it and start driving the M-E impulse drives into the M-E wormhole term's operating realm and see what happens. Andrew may be right, but then again I've seen several Quantum Vacuum Fluctuation papers that says he might be wrong. Only time and more experiments will tell us which is the true path, but there is still a good possibility that traversable wormholes and warp bubbles can be constructed through the use of the M-E and/or QVF sciences.
Any cites/links/papers/authors on QVF besides the one you already provided? Any feedback appreciated.
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Stoney3K
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Postby Stoney3K » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:20 pm

Betruger wrote:It looks like the Warpstar-1 MLTs are distributed in 4 triangular sets of 3, forming a triangular prism:
Image
And that each MLT tesseract can thrust in X, Y, or Z dimensions. So you would have full attitude and translation thrusting, in all 6 degrees of freedom.


I'd imagine an RCS system and some conventonal engines *would* be useful to have here, even if it were as a backup or to compensate for any glitches in the MLT engines. Let the MLT's handle the grunt of the power, and steer, maneuver and dock with the RCS.

As stated on the previous page, even if FTL drives aren't possible with these things, a lot of companies would be very interested to see working engines built from these units. Aerospace applications could include engine replacement for conventional aircraft, new aircraft concepts (e.g. airships or other hovering craft), and any application where you need thrust in a specific direction of motion.

Are there any numbers yet relating the amount of thrust, weight of the unit and the power it requires when active? That would give you a good estimate on a craft's performance and P/W ratio.
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kurt9
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Postby kurt9 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:59 pm

paulmarch wrote:
If your collegue Mr. Palfreyman was correct in his STAIF 2006 interview, negative mass is not achieved, but instead the decreasing mass signal slides toward zero on an asymptotic curve. Has this suspicion/critique of his been addressed?



We have not experimentally explored the wormhole issue you raise yet. The M-E derivation indicates that the delta mass density can go down to zero, but past that it is mute, so we will either have to develope a quantum gravity theory to see if creating the negative energy densities required for the FTL drives is really possible, or just wing it and start driving the M-E impulse drives into the M-E wormhole term's operating realm and see what happens. Andrew may be right, but then again I've seen several Quantum Vacuum Fluctuation papers that says he might be wrong. Only time and more experiments will tell us which is the true path, but there is still a good possibility that traversable wormholes and warp bubbles can be constructed through the use of the M-E and/or QVF sciences.


Doesn't the QVF approach take you into Haisch, Puthoff, and David territory? Many of their ideas are based on QVF as well.

About dielectrics: I talked to a guy in Japan last night (Skype) who, in turn, knows a guy who is developing a dielectric material based on a metal/polymer composite that would have an e-r greater than that of BaTiO3. It would also be of lower density. We did not discuss high voltage, high frequency performance. However, assuming that it works and has acceptable life time in your performance spec (100Vp-p, 50MHz), is this a material that would be useful for MLT research?

Right now he is developing this material as a thin film for MEMS device applications. However, he thinks he can make it in bulk form as well.

BTW, my email is kurt@metatechnica.com

Betruger
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Postby Betruger » Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:10 pm

Sorry for the off topic but.. There's something really cool about seeing possible developments happen with your own eyes like above :)

Stoney the numbers in the papers Paul March has linked to appear pretty exhaustive of what they do know at this point. IIRC each tesseract unit (12 as in the illustrated Warpstar-1 above) is something like 150 kg? Do you need the pdf and ppt files converted to plain text or html?

paulmarch
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Postby paulmarch » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:32 pm

djolds1 wrote:
paulmarch wrote:We have not experimentally explored the wormhole issue you raise yet. The M-E derivation indicates that the delta mass density can go down to zero, but past that it is mute, so we will either have to develope a quantum gravity theory to see if creating the negative energy densities required for the FTL drives is really possible, or just wing it and start driving the M-E impulse drives into the M-E wormhole term's operating realm and see what happens. Andrew may be right, but then again I've seen several Quantum Vacuum Fluctuation papers that says he might be wrong. Only time and more experiments will tell us which is the true path, but there is still a good possibility that traversable wormholes and warp bubbles can be constructed through the use of the M-E and/or QVF sciences.

Any cites/links/papers/authors on QVF besides the one you already provided? Any feedback appreciated.


You might start with the "Hydrodynamics of the Vacuum" by P. M. Stevenson from Rice University. Also of interest is a STAIF-2006 paper by Harold White and Eric Davis entitled "The Alcubierre Warp Drive in Higher Dimensional Spacetime" by H. G. White-1 and E. W. Davis-2, along with Harold (Sonny) White's STAIF-2007 Paper on QVF/MHD Thrusters.
Paul March

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paulmarch
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Postby paulmarch » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:40 pm

kurt9 wrote:
paulmarch wrote:
If your collegue Mr. Palfreyman was correct in his STAIF 2006 interview, negative mass is not achieved, but instead the decreasing mass signal slides toward zero on an asymptotic curve. Has this suspicion/critique of his been addressed?



We have not experimentally explored the wormhole issue you raise yet. The M-E derivation indicates that the delta mass density can go down to zero, but past that it is mute, so we will either have to develope a quantum gravity theory to see if creating the negative energy densities required for the FTL drives is really possible, or just wing it and start driving the M-E impulse drives into the M-E wormhole term's operating realm and see what happens. Andrew may be right, but then again I've seen several Quantum Vacuum Fluctuation papers that says he might be wrong. Only time and more experiments will tell us which is the true path, but there is still a good possibility that traversable wormholes and warp bubbles can be constructed through the use of the M-E and/or QVF sciences.


Doesn't the QVF approach take you into Haisch, Puthoff, and David territory? Many of their ideas are based on QVF as well.

About dielectrics: I talked to a guy in Japan last night (Skype) who, in turn, knows a guy who is developing a dielectric material based on a metal/polymer composite that would have an e-r greater than that of BaTiO3. It would also be of lower density. We did not discuss high voltage, high frequency performance. However, assuming that it works and has acceptable life time in your performance spec (100Vp-p, 50MHz), is this a material that would be useful for MLT research?

Right now he is developing this material as a thin film for MEMS device applications. However, he thinks he can make it in bulk form as well.

BTW, my email is kurt@metatechnica.com


"Doesn't the QVF approach take you into Haisch, Puthoff, and David territory? Many of their ideas are based on QVF as well."

Yes, and see my last post for a few references of interest. IMO we will have to end up merging the best of Woodward's M-E and the QVF folks ideas into a working "Quantum Gravity" theory before we will have the keys to interstellar flight. In the meantime if we can perfect the M-E drives based on the M-E equations' impulse term, we have the keys to the solar system, which is a good place to start.

"However, assuming that it works and has acceptable life time in your performance spec (100Vp-p, 50MHz), is this a material that would be useful for MLT research?"

Of course it would. Could you provide a pointer to, or a data sheet on this new dielectric?
Paul March

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kurt9
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Postby kurt9 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:14 pm

I will get a spec sheet or presentation on the dielectric material. It will take me about 1 week or so to get it. I will let you know then.

Speaking of MLT and QVF stuff, it does make sense to me that both of these concepts have to somehow be unified into a quantum gravity theory in order for any kind of FTL applications to be developed. Both of these concepts seem to point in the right direction (as far as I can tell from the literature and presentations, I'm no physicist) but they both seem to be incomplete.

djolds1
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Postby djolds1 » Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:21 am

paulmarch wrote:You might start with the "Hydrodynamics of the Vacuum" by P. M. Stevenson from Rice University. Also of interest is a STAIF-2006 paper by Harold White and Eric Davis entitled "The Alcubierre Warp Drive in Higher Dimensional Spacetime" by H. G. White-1 and E. W. Davis-2, along with Harold (Sonny) White's STAIF-2007 Paper on QVF/MHD Thrusters.
Thanks. :D
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Carl White
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Postby Carl White » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:45 pm

I wonder whether a group like the Planetary Society would be interested in sponsoring (i.e. putting up some funding) for experimental work of this sort.

Skipjack
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Postby Skipjack » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:11 pm

Great idea Carl!

KitemanSA
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Postby KitemanSA » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:08 pm

The Space Studies Institute used to support such things too. They are specifically an R&D support organization.

paulmarch
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Postby paulmarch » Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:56 pm

KitemanSA wrote:The Space Studies Institute used to support such things too. They are specifically an R&D support organization.


Good thought guys and I need to send each outfit in question a note and ask them what their current R&D grants requirements are these days. The last time I looked they were more interested in more near-term conventional ideas than the M-E or QVF work we are pursuing.

BTW, I had an idea yesterday that may allow integrating the Bussard Wiffle-Ball fusion reactor and a M-E drive into one working unit. This approach to high power M-E thrusters might be able to work, but there are some possible show stoppers such as the M-E field modulations disturbing the WB-XX's circulating electron loop currents between the virtual B-field grid cusps, but it needs to be kept in mind if both approaches work out as hoped.
Paul March

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Postby kunkmiester » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:36 pm

It could turn out worse than we like, and still work, potentially. Just like there are plans going around to use fusion reactors to generate neutrons to boost fission plants, a Bussard-Mach thruster could be used exclusively in that role--boosting the power of the thruster, reducing the power input needed, rather than generating power by itself.
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