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Aero
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
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Location: Eastern Iowa
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KitemanSA
Joined: 28 Sep 2008
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 Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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This has been discussed in some detail in other topics.
When there is additional info under the "Original Synopsis" in the left hand column, get back to us. Until then, this is old news.
Thanks for watching though!  |
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Aero
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
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Location: Eastern Iowa
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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Kiteman - I believe you spoke too soon. Yes, we have speculated on WB8 for sometime. But take a look at the Contract Line Items (CDRL), and read the statement of work. That is all new information.
This solicitation presents the best picture of the goals and work to be done that we have seen to date. I suggest following the links to see what the navy is actually signing off on. For example, I found this paragraph from the statement of work to be informative:
| Quote: | 3.1.2 The design shall use circular coils around each main face cusp axis. The device shall use emitter electron gun
arrays and an ion beam drive. The machine will be operated in magnetic fields with pulsed currents. WB8 shall be
operated at a magnetic field strength of approximately 0.8 Tesla, which represents an increase of 8 times the
magnetic field strength of previous WB machines. Improvements over previous WB machines in WB confinement,
ion energy and fusion reactivity are expected as a result of these changes to WB machine design. |
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Aero |
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Aero
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Aero
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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Duplicate Post.
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Aero
Last edited by Aero on Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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chrismb
Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 1525
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | 3.1.2 The design shall use circular coils around each main face cusp axis. The device shall use emitter electron gun
arrays and an ion beam drive. The machine will be operated in magnetic fields with pulsed currents. WB8 shall be
operated at a magnetic field strength of approximately 0.8 Tesla, which represents an increase of 8 times the
magnetic field strength of previous WB machines. Improvements over previous WB machines in WB confinement,
ion energy and fusion reactivity are expected as a result of these changes to WB machine design. |
Sounds very much like "Improvements over previous WB machines...are expected [..or else...forget any more money!!]" |
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MSimon
Joined: 16 Jul 2007
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Location: Rockford, Illinois
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| chrismb wrote: | | Quote: | 3.1.2 The design shall use circular coils around each main face cusp axis. The device shall use emitter electron gun
arrays and an ion beam drive. The machine will be operated in magnetic fields with pulsed currents. WB8 shall be
operated at a magnetic field strength of approximately 0.8 Tesla, which represents an increase of 8 times the
magnetic field strength of previous WB machines. Improvements over previous WB machines in WB confinement,
ion energy and fusion reactivity are expected as a result of these changes to WB machine design. |
Sounds very much like "Improvements over previous WB machines...are expected [..or else...forget any more money!!]" |
Good idea. If they don't come within experimental error explanations will be required. Why is it worse than expected? Or more optimistically why is it better?
An 8X increase in field strength implies a 64 X increase in power. Unless the coils are cooled by LN2 or better yet LHe. With LHe at 20K and Cu it might be possible to get the increased current with no increase in power (except for the batteries and external wiring).
One thing liquid cooled coils give you is faster cycle times. Maybe 6 or 10 shots an hour vs 1.
If they are burning D-D and the device scales an 8X B field implies a neutron rate 4,000 times the WB-7.
That might be enough to do neutron tomography with enough shots.
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Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit. |
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MSimon
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JohnP
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 257
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| MSimon wrote: |
An 8X increase in field strength implies a 64 X increase in power. |
4096 X increase in power? B^4*R^3?
Sorry. Now I saw the rest of your post. |
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KitemanSA
Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Posts: 2391
Location: Northern VA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| Aero wrote: | | Kiteman - I believe you spoke too soon. Yes, we have speculated on WB8 for sometime. But take a look at the Contract Line Items (CDRL), and read the statement of work. That is all new information. |
How interesting! When I looked at it this AM when I first read your post there was nothing but the original synopsis. Now there is the change link that leads to all sorts of interesting things. Aero, I do own you an apology. Please consider this your apology 
Boy the net is weird! |
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Scupperer
Joined: 05 May 2008
Posts: 87
Location: Huntsville, AL
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | 3.2.1 Enhanced Ion Drive with PB11 (proton/boron 11): Based on the results of WB8 testing, and the availability
of government funds the contractor shall develop a WB machine (WB8.1) which incorporates the knowledge and
improvements gained in WB8. It is expected that higher ion drive capabilities will be added, and that a “PB11”
reaction will be demonstrated. |
Oooh, they're going for the whole enchilada!
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Perrin Ehlinger |
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MSimon
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Aero
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
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Location: Eastern Iowa
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:02 am Post subject: |
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Kiteman - You don't really owe an apology to me. But I'll accept it anyway. But the links were there when I first posted and much different when I went back the second time (same stuff, different structure) so maybe you caught them during an update, who knows what the status was when you first checked.
I found the statement of work (SOW) quite interesting, especially when they talk of doing pb11 fusion with WB8.1 . Also about delivering specifications for a new device, WB9, to be a 100 MW machine if all goes well with the work on WB8 and WB8.1. The SOW also talks about computer simulations and improved understanding of scaling, to be presented to a big review within 40 days of end of contract. (Before? After?) Good stuff.
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MSimon
Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 8780
Location: Rockford, Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:21 am Post subject: |
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| Aero wrote: | Kiteman - You don't really owe an apology to me. But I'll accept it anyway. But the links were there when I first posted and much different when I went back the second time (same stuff, different structure) so maybe you caught them during an update, who knows what the status was when you first checked.
I found the statement of work (SOW) quite interesting, especially when they talk of doing pb11 fusion with WB8.1 . Also about delivering specifications for a new device, WB9, to be a 100 MW machine if all goes well with the work on WB8 and WB8.1. The SOW also talks about computer simulations and improved understanding of scaling, to be presented to a big review within 40 days of end of contract. (Before? After?) Good stuff. |
Shouldn't that be 100 milliwatts?
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MSimon
Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 8780
Location: Rockford, Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| Scupperer wrote: | | Quote: | 3.2.1 Enhanced Ion Drive with PB11 (proton/boron 11): Based on the results of WB8 testing, and the availability
of government funds the contractor shall develop a WB machine (WB8.1) which incorporates the knowledge and
improvements gained in WB8. It is expected that higher ion drive capabilities will be added, and that a “PB11”
reaction will be demonstrated. |
Oooh, they're going for the whole enchilada! |
Which says that things are going well indeed. D-D must be a piece of cake. Or what ever they are using to simulate it (He4?)
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Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit. |
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