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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:01 pm 
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Relieve suffering - how ever you can

Would that be the short sighted relieve suffering now, ignore tomorrow, or a longer term view that allows suffering now to prevent greater future suffering?
Quote:
There is no such thing as addiction when it comes to drugs.

Quite possibly the most ignorant statement made on this board. Physiological adaptation to the presence of a drug, with resultant pain when it is withdrawn, is well established.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:45 pm 
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Location: Rockford, Illinois
OK. Guys I get it now.

You like the fact that Prohibition supports street gangs. How short sighted of me not to get it. What kind of country would this be without a robust gang culture?

It is too bad our founders didn't get it either. Fortunately an alliance of secular and Christian progressives did get it. The nation will be forever grateful to the progressives for bringing us a program which spawned not only street gangs and cartels but also finances terrorists.

What kind of world would it be without this wonderful program which makes it easier for kids to get illegal drugs than legal beers. I guess it is long term short sighted of me to not get it. I'll do my best to mend my ways.

BTW you need to work on the 56% favoring legalizing pot and the 67% who say prohibition isn't working. How can we win this war with so few people supporting it?

And what will the bankers do if they cant make huge profits from turning black money white? It will undermine our whole banking system.

http://classicalvalues.com/2012/07/mone ... g-cartels/

And have a heart for all those unionized prison guards who will be out of work. You wouldn't want unionism to decline in America would you? Of course you wouldn't. I'm glad you guys are on the right side of this government program and that you have convinced me of the error of my ways. Not only do I thank you but I'm sure if the police unions knew of your support they would thank you too.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:19 pm 
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MSimon wrote:
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It is absurd that you claim to understand Moses' fundamental story when you consider drugs the equal of Faith because they are both just chemical states of the brain. You don't even accept the first commandment.


Well that is odd. Because it is said that all seed bearing plants were given to us by the Maker for our benefit.

And the best tool the Devil has is not greed. It is hate. Look in a mirror lately? Or even better your heart? And what is the method of hate? Divide and conquer. I must say you play it well. My compliments to Old Nic. Interesting fellow. Both of us get great amusement out of humans. And the more you try to evade the Old One the more he ensnares you. I prefer to count him as a friend - a very distant friend. But I would never be his follower or his enemy. Both paths are fraught with danger. I prefer acquaintance. It is a caution.

And at the root of hate is fear.

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear.


Your favorite schizophrenic self affirmations are not necessarily as interesting to others as they are to yourself. I don't feel the hate you are attributing to me - nor the fear.

We really seem to lack any common ground from which to anchor a conversation. I don't see much point in continuing.

Please resume your regularly scheduled ravings.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:58 pm 
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Location: Rockford, Illinois
seedload wrote:
MSimon wrote:
Quote:
It is absurd that you claim to understand Moses' fundamental story when you consider drugs the equal of Faith because they are both just chemical states of the brain. You don't even accept the first commandment.


Well that is odd. Because it is said that all seed bearing plants were given to us by the Maker for our benefit.

And the best tool the Devil has is not greed. It is hate. Look in a mirror lately? Or even better your heart? And what is the method of hate? Divide and conquer. I must say you play it well. My compliments to Old Nic. Interesting fellow. Both of us get great amusement out of humans. And the more you try to evade the Old One the more he ensnares you. I prefer to count him as a friend - a very distant friend. But I would never be his follower or his enemy. Both paths are fraught with danger. I prefer acquaintance. It is a caution.

And at the root of hate is fear.

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear.


Your favorite schizophrenic self affirmations are not necessarily as interesting to others as they are to yourself. I don't feel the hate you are attributing to me - nor the fear.

We really seem to lack any common ground from which to anchor a conversation. I don't see much point in continuing.

Please resume your regularly scheduled ravings.


I understand. You fear liberty and want some kind of controller to soothe your fears.

The difficulty with that is that you will probably not get the controller you want.

I did a post on that a few days ago.

http://classicalvalues.com/2012/07/the- ... mentality/

You would reduce us all to slavery to ease your fears. It has been tried many times - it never works long term. Eventually the slaves will want different terms. Which the masters will find revolting.

In fact we are going through just such a time now and you find it difficult to handle.

I find it exhilarating.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:17 am 
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In a different age freedom from fear was defined as Trust In God. We live in a godless age full of fear.

Further thoughts:

Why Do Conservatives Misunderstand Libertarians

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:40 pm 
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Does that mean the religious conservatives that are pushing so much moral legislation don't trust the god they profess to worship?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:15 pm 
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randomencounter wrote:
Does that mean the religious conservatives that are pushing so much moral legislation don't trust the god they profess to worship?


It is difficult to say what is in a man's heart but that would be my guess.

They fear setting an example is not good enough so that they need enforcers. And of course they tell us it is for our own good. The same rationale the Democrats use for all their impositions.

And then we have the guy who uses CS Lewis in his tagline - something to the effect that courage is the source of all virtue. Who doesn't have the courage to leave people alone. It is a hoot.

Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber barons cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. Clive Staples "CS" Lewis

I repeat that to him but he evidently can't see it.
====

I was just turned on today to something called Christian Liberty. Not to my taste but I found it quite interesting.

The premise is that anything that the Bible does not specifically ban is allowed. With people joining different churches based on their preferences. The idea though is that the laws on the unbanned things should be personal and not government imposed.

It is definitely a step up from the place most people who currently call themselves conservatives reside.

====

What is also amusing is the repetition of the European experience. The use of force by the church has left Europe for the most part churchless. And they are endeavoring to repeat the experiment here. Why?

Enticement not enforcement is IMO the way to go. It is in fact what Jesus preached and how he acted. Not that it matters to the Christians of today.

====

The left is now on the ropes and the "Christians" are doing their best to give them a new lease on life. I do believe they will succeed. Dang.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:51 pm 
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MSimon wrote:
seedload wrote:
MSimon wrote:
Quote:
And the best tool the Devil has is not greed. It is hate. Look in a mirror lately? Or even better your heart? And what is the method of hate? Divide and conquer. I must say you play it well.


I don't feel the hate you are attributing to me - nor the fear.


I understand. You fear liberty and want some kind of controller to soothe your fears.


I understand. You are a deluded dick.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:55 pm 
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Location: Rockford, Illinois
seedload wrote:
MSimon wrote:
seedload wrote:
MSimon wrote:
Quote:
And the best tool the Devil has is not greed. It is hate. Look in a mirror lately? Or even better your heart? And what is the method of hate? Divide and conquer. I must say you play it well.


I don't feel the hate you are attributing to me - nor the fear.


I understand. You fear liberty and want some kind of controller to soothe your fears.


I understand. You are a deluded dick.


Interesting that your arguments are so strong that you have to resort to ad homs. My condolences.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:46 pm 
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MSimon wrote:
seedload wrote:
MSimon wrote:
seedload wrote:
MSimon wrote:
Quote:
And the best tool the Devil has is not greed. It is hate. Look in a mirror lately? Or even better your heart? And what is the method of hate? Divide and conquer. I must say you play it well.


I don't feel the hate you are attributing to me - nor the fear.


I understand. You fear liberty and want some kind of controller to soothe your fears.


I understand. You are a deluded dick.


Interesting that your arguments are so strong that you have to resort to ad homs. My condolences.


Arguments? Arguments about what? There isn't exactly an eloquent exchange to someone persistently calling you a fearful and hateful pussy is there?

Interesting that you never even commented on my arguments.

Interesting that, instead, you called me the Devil's hateful tool itchin' for totalitarian rule because of a pervasive fear of liberty.

Interesting that you don't consider that ad hominem. Personally, I would have preferred to be called a dick.

Interesting that when I said I am not hateful or fearful, that you simply repeated that I was filled with hate and fear.

Interesting that, given the above, you don't find the same weakness to your own name calling in place of discussion.

Interestingly, you do in fact seem to be a dick.

Finally, I don't consider my statement to be "ad hom". It was a simple change of topic.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:04 pm 
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Location: Northern Shen. Valley, VA
Diogenes wrote:
You are libertarian, and I am a conservative. I feel I have a good grasp on your perspective, and I think you comprehend my positions fairly well.


Good Lord you're no convservative! What do you think you're conserving? You're joined at the hip to Maggie Mead and Carrie Nation.

You're a goo-goo Progressive, when what was is actually conservative is the government which governs least.

Libertinism does not begin until a swinging fist has hit another's nose.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:14 pm 
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TDPerk wrote:
Good Lord you're no convservative!

I doubt there are any reasonable people here who don't think Diogenes is correct when he claims to be a conservative. The reason you would argue with someone about what they consider themself is no doubt tied to your emotional need for an unbalanced position, such as libertarianism.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:20 pm 
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Location: Northern Shen. Valley, VA
GIThruster wrote:
TDPerk wrote:
Good Lord you're no convservative!

I doubt there are any reasonable people here who don't think Diogenes is correct when he claims to be a conservative. The reason you would argue with someone about what they consider themself is no doubt tied to your emotional need for an unbalanced position, such as libertarianism.


It is in fact a very well balanced position, and is nearly mandated at the national level by the constitution, which creates a federal government of very narrow scope. With the civil war amendments forcing those restrictions on the states, it very nearly extends that limited government to all jurisdictions subject to it--the whole point of the civil war amendments was to deny the general police power to the states, nothing which the feds cannot do, could the states then do.

The conservative position in America is not and has never been Burkean, it is Jospeh Plumb Martin and company firing en volley at Burke's peers.

For Diogene's--and your--goals to be accomplished, the constitution must be ignored. Your's is no conservative position at all.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:30 pm 
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As I said--unbalanced. It's important to note that both liberals and conservatives claim to have "libertarian leanings". The reason libertarians are hopelessly awash is they're idealogs who haven't a sense of balance in life. They take the notion of liberty and pretend it can exist without boundaries nor peers. Likewise, quoting brilliant men from centuries ago and pretending the world hasn't changed, etc. It's this childish and misguided approach to life that ensures Ron Paul will always be popular in some of his opines, and never be elected--libertarianism is for the unbalanced who never learned better. The sad thing is they should have learned by the time they were twelve.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:09 pm 
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"As I said--unbalanced."

You've asserted it. The unbalance is yours, your goals require the destruction of the constitution and the negation of 1775.

"It's important to note that both liberals and conservatives claim to have "libertarian leanings"."

Because they all want to pretend to be the true inheritors of 1775. The current "liberals" are the reverse of that year's intentions, they just want an elected tyrant (as long as they count the votes). They are the children not of the Enlightenment but of the Endarkenment, the poisonous get of Rousseau and his "general will". The ones who are "social conservatives" are at best the ground from which 1775 came; the unbalances and contradictions inherent to seeking a Christly life and also attempting to use Ceasar (and his prisons, machine guns, and cattleprods) to do Christs work either lead to 1775--as the original Puritans found--or return to it--as the disastrous and ineffective results of Prohibition, the war on drugs, and as the war on drugs and "compassionate conservatism" show.

'Likewise, quoting brilliant men from centuries ago and pretending the world hasn't changed, etc."

The human world hasn't changed, human nature is a constant.

" It's this childish and misguided approach to life that ensures Ron Paul will always be popular in some of his opines, and never be elected--libertarianism is for the unbalanced who never learned better. "

Why would you imagine I support Ron Paul, or think his supporters to be libertarian?

"The sad thing is they should have learned by the time they were twelve."

I have learned to mind my own business, and far prior to the age of twelve. Pity you haven't.

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