Highway robbery

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Jccarlton
Posts: 1747
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:14 pm
Location: Southern Ct

Highway robbery

Postby Jccarlton » Fri May 20, 2011 12:50 am

It's an old Southern tradition, updated for the drug wars:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTeH9D_t ... r_embedded
There are people who do, for a variety of reasons, legitimately use cash for transactions. Or people who just don't trust banks. In any case, without probable cause these guys have no business confiscating cash off the highway. They used to hang people for that.

MSimon
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Location: Rockford, Illinois
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Postby MSimon » Fri May 20, 2011 6:49 am

Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
http://protonboron.com/
THE OPEN POLYWELL FUSION CONSORTIUM

Diogenes
Posts: 6817
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:33 pm
Location: Ft. Sill Oklahoma

Re: Highway robbery

Postby Diogenes » Fri May 20, 2011 1:04 pm

Jccarlton wrote:It's an old Southern tradition, updated for the drug wars:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTeH9D_t ... r_embedded
There are people who do, for a variety of reasons, legitimately use cash for transactions. Or people who just don't trust banks. In any case, without probable cause these guys have no business confiscating cash off the highway. They used to hang people for that.



As far as i'm concerned, this behavior by Law enforcement is a violation of 5th Amendment Due Process, and ought not be tolerated. It is one of the areas where I happen to agree with MSimon regarding the drug war.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

chrismb
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:00 pm

Postby chrismb » Fri May 20, 2011 1:49 pm

I don't see the issue, excepting they should be able to show a fair suspicion before a search. But if, thereafter, they find $200,000 cash in a wrapped bundle.. c'mon!!.... you serious that that is normal, law-abiding kinda activity?

Diogenes
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Postby Diogenes » Fri May 20, 2011 2:33 pm

chrismb wrote:I don't see the issue, excepting they should be able to show a fair suspicion before a search. But if, thereafter, they find $200,000 cash in a wrapped bundle.. c'mon!!.... you serious that that is normal, law-abiding kinda activity?



That is for a judge to decide. My complaint is not that they took the money, it's that they didn't do it according to the requirements of our bill of rights.

You are ENTITLED to "due process" if the government (or representatives thereof) are trying to take anything away from you. They MUST hold a hearing, and the evidence MUST be weighed by a Judge and/or Jury.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

seedload
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:16 pm

Postby seedload » Fri May 20, 2011 2:45 pm

chrismb wrote:I don't see the issue, excepting they should be able to show a fair suspicion before a search. But if, thereafter, they find $200,000 cash in a wrapped bundle.. c'mon!!.... you serious that that is normal, law-abiding kinda activity?


Agree that "c'mon" is a reasonable response. Obviously, in the majority of cases, that much money is drug money. But....

"C'mon" shouldn't be enough.

If there is nothing tying the money to illegal activity, then they shouldn't be able to take the money. And, the idea that you have to legally fight to prove that the money is legitimate is opposite of the way our legal system should work - innocent until proven guilty.

EricF
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Location: Pell City, Alabama

Postby EricF » Fri May 20, 2011 4:32 pm

Seems like the simplest solution for the truckers would be to just install a safe on each truck.

seedload
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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:16 pm

Postby seedload » Fri May 20, 2011 5:21 pm

EricF wrote:Seems like the simplest solution for the truckers would be to just install a safe on each truck.


Or to just say no to a search.

But, once probable cause is established, there is nothing stopping the police from forcing you to open the safe and from breaking into it themselves once you refuse or claim that you cannot.

So, if 'no' won't work, sticking it in a safe won't either.

choff
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Location: Vancouver, Canada

Postby choff » Fri May 20, 2011 5:46 pm

I wonder how it would work with say $200,000 in Travellers Cheques. Replaceable if lost or stolen! More practical than carrying cash.
CHoff

MSimon
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Re: Highway robbery

Postby MSimon » Fri May 20, 2011 6:26 pm

Diogenes wrote:
Jccarlton wrote:It's an old Southern tradition, updated for the drug wars:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTeH9D_t ... r_embedded
There are people who do, for a variety of reasons, legitimately use cash for transactions. Or people who just don't trust banks. In any case, without probable cause these guys have no business confiscating cash off the highway. They used to hang people for that.



As far as i'm concerned, this behavior by Law enforcement is a violation of 5th Amendment Due Process, and ought not be tolerated. It is one of the areas where I happen to agree with MSimon regarding the drug war.


D,

You can't prosecute a prohibition regime without violating the 4th and 5th.

A good place to look is "drug war exceptions to the 4th". Or read my:

http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/200 ... dment.html

The founders knew about this. The rest of us (collectively) seem to have forgotten.

My friend Eric says the Drug War is a perfect excuse for the militarization of the police:

http://classicalvalues.com/2011/05/is-i ... -hessians/

Now who do you think they are really after? Dopers and drug gangs? Nope. That is just an excuse. These are the folks who will be used when it is time to crack down on the American people.

All developed with your complicity D. Gotta make ya feel proud.

It is not just bootleggers and Baptists any more.

It is bootleggers, Baptists and fascists. Nice ring don't you think?

=====

jc,

I give you a mention here:

http://classicalvalues.com/2011/05/a-pr ... or-police/

Another little fascist enterprise brought to you by the drug war. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

=====

All you have to do is scream "MORAL MENACE" and the Baptists fall right in line. It is more reliable than Pavlovs dogs. At least in America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic

And D - you are always on about how the socialists are led like sheep. From my perspective conservatives are no better. Both sides run on emotionalism where reason ought to prevail.

The Baptists have forgotten old Ben:

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.


I might add that in the end they will get neither.

====

What is truly ironic is how "the truly God fearing" are so susceptible to Devils. All the Government has to do is to make a big enough image of a Devil and the Baptists fall right in line. The Government makes a big voodoo doll and the Baptists worship it. The worship is disguised as a fight so the Baptists are blinded by their own worship of the Devil.

The real Devil of course is not the Drugs. It is the Government. Clever Devils doncha think?
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
http://protonboron.com/
THE OPEN POLYWELL FUSION CONSORTIUM

MSimon
Posts: 14310
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Postby MSimon » Fri May 20, 2011 6:55 pm

chrismb wrote:I don't see the issue, excepting they should be able to show a fair suspicion before a search. But if, thereafter, they find $200,000 cash in a wrapped bundle.. c'mon!!.... you serious that that is normal, law-abiding kinda activity?


It is not truckers with $200,000 that they are really after. The bread and butter is people with $500 to $5,000 in cash.

The $200,000 just gets your sympathy so they can go after the little people who will not be in the next headline. Plus they will be unable (mostly) to resist legally. Why fight the theft of $500 when it will cost you $2,000 for a lawyer? Heck. Why even fight a $2,000 heist when the best you can do is break even?

Do some searching on the subject before spouting off.

http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/20 ... -blue.html

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/n ... tes16.html

http://reason.com/archives/2010/08/16/t ... nse-to-ste

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2009/03/03/ ... -not-obey/

Asset Forfeiture: Texas DA Seeks to Use Seized Funds to Defend Herself in Lawsuit Over Unlawful Seizure of Same Funds; ACLU Objects
http://stopthedrugwar.org/taxonomy/term/53?page=1

John Stossel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_xJ0kFBm3s

Link rich:
http://www.downsizedc.org/blog/whatever ... ocent-quot

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... =19&t=6546
...the police here allegedly have found a way to strip motorists, many of them black, of their property without ever charging them with a crime. Instead they offer out-of-towners a grim choice: voluntarily sign over your belongings to the town, or face felony charges of money laundering or other serious crimes.

http://www.videolicca.com/videos/_hytkA ... forfeiture

Police Steal Money from Elderly Medical Marijuana Patients
http://stopthedrugwar.org/speakeasy/200 ... erly_medic
the 90-year-old couple, Lester ("Smitty") and Mary Smith--who were raided at their Philo home last week (9.24.08) with law enforcement seizing their life savings and all their plants in the process--are qualified patients with doctors' approvals and did nothing wrong.

Smitty said, "I wasn't worried a bit. I knew it was legal. I planted six plants two years in a row and this year, I planted 17 for me and Mary. That's not too many is it? My wife is very ill, confined to a wheelchair or recliner. She likes the bud tea. She has severe arthritis. It makes it easier for her to get around. She walks easier; she can walk to the bathroom even by herself."

Smitty has health issues too. "I have heart problems, blood clots, stomach cramps, emphysema, bad hips. I've had a heart attack. I sometimes get strong chest pains and can't breathe right. I take nitroglycerine. That brings me back. My doctors want me to take more x-rays here locally but that would be a big expense. Usually, I go to the Veterans Hospital and they pay for it."

Mary Smith was forced to stay in the house by herself during the 5-hour raid while additional warrants for an adjoining parcel were telephoned in and delivered, allowing sheriff's deputies to enter all the residences.

The elderly Smiths were not arrested or charged with a crime, because there was none.


Had enough yet? I can get you more. Pages more. And that is just what is reported.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
http://protonboron.com/
THE OPEN POLYWELL FUSION CONSORTIUM

choff
Posts: 2337
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:02 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Postby choff » Sat May 21, 2011 12:20 am

Where I live the police can confiscate any cash on your person if you aren't carrying ID when charged with a crime, and they're starting to confiscate proceeds of crime after convictions. But $500.00 is within the range of what the average person would have in a wallet, so yes, in these cases they're going too far.

Eventually a case will emerge where a cop carrying a large sum of confiscated cash will themselves be pulled over and subject to confiscation when passing through another jurisdiction. Then the police will see the wisdom of proper constitutional guidelines.
CHoff

Jccarlton
Posts: 1747
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:14 pm
Location: Southern Ct

Re: Highway robbery

Postby Jccarlton » Sat May 21, 2011 3:35 am

Thank you. I have never been an illegal drug user, so I don't really care about drug availability. The drug war, though, has become more of a way to break the social compact created by the founders and take the country to places where we really don't want to go.
MSimon wrote:
Diogenes wrote:
Jccarlton wrote:It's an old Southern tradition, updated for the drug wars:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTeH9D_t ... r_embedded
There are people who do, for a variety of reasons, legitimately use cash for transactions. Or people who just don't trust banks. In any case, without probable cause these guys have no business confiscating cash off the highway. They used to hang people for that.



As far as i'm concerned, this behavior by Law enforcement is a violation of 5th Amendment Due Process, and ought not be tolerated. It is one of the areas where I happen to agree with MSimon regarding the drug war.


D,

You can't prosecute a prohibition regime without violating the 4th and 5th.

A good place to look is "drug war exceptions to the 4th". Or read my:

http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/200 ... dment.html

The founders knew about this. The rest of us (collectively) seem to have forgotten.

My friend Eric says the Drug War is a perfect excuse for the militarization of the police:

http://classicalvalues.com/2011/05/is-i ... -hessians/

Now who do you think they are really after? Dopers and drug gangs? Nope. That is just an excuse. These are the folks who will be used when it is time to crack down on the American people.

All developed with your complicity D. Gotta make ya feel proud.

It is not just bootleggers and Baptists any more.

It is bootleggers, Baptists and fascists. Nice ring don't you think?

=====

jc,

I give you a mention here:

http://classicalvalues.com/2011/05/a-pr ... or-police/

Another little fascist enterprise brought to you by the drug war. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

=====

All you have to do is scream "MORAL MENACE" and the Baptists fall right in line. It is more reliable than Pavlovs dogs. At least in America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic

And D - you are always on about how the socialists are led like sheep. From my perspective conservatives are no better. Both sides run on emotionalism where reason ought to prevail.

The Baptists have forgotten old Ben:

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.


I might add that in the end they will get neither.

====

What is truly ironic is how "the truly God fearing" are so susceptible to Devils. All the Government has to do is to make a big enough image of a Devil and the Baptists fall right in line. The Government makes a big voodoo doll and the Baptists worship it. The worship is disguised as a fight so the Baptists are blinded by their own worship of the Devil.

The real Devil of course is not the Drugs. It is the Government. Clever Devils doncha think?


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