Polywell Visions: Politics

If polywell fusion is developed, in what ways will the world change for better or worse? Discuss.

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cksantos
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Postby cksantos » Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:51 pm

MirariNefas wrote:We're so far ahead that even our private tech startups are the best in the world. We wouldn't need government run launch vehicles to dominate. We'd just need a few export restrictions and fees, and let our companies run wild. Our companies would launch the payloads of other countries. Our companies would sell them all asteroid materials (after paying export taxes, of course). A few companies in other countries would become competitive, but there wouldn't be many and they'd enter the market later. Everybody would have access to the space business, but we'd get the biggest market share and our government would be sitting on the taxes from the biggest companies. We can do everything out in the open and still skew business and economic development in favor of the country who first developed the technology.


I like this plan. Its balanced and practical. The only thing is who owns General Polywell. I think it will be big oil, and they will become big polywell. Because if you dont they will fight it tooth and nail.

MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:15 pm

Would your alternative be Big Government?

For all practical purposes for any major country Polywell is free. And yet only the USA and to a lesser extent Japan is doing much research in this area. Why? What makes them so stupid and us so smart?

I'll give you a hint: America is still the easiest country for a person to pursue their dreams. And we are a country of dreamers.

“All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.” T.E. Lawrence


Why give us such a large head start? Well such technology would disrupt the five year plan. As you correctly point out. Here in the US we are comfortable with new technologies disrupting plans. (except for some - and you know who you are)
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MirariNefas
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Postby MirariNefas » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:15 pm

The only thing is who owns General Polywell. I think it will be big oil, and they will become big polywell. Because if you dont they will fight it tooth and nail.


Fine by me. If they're prosperous and have the power to make gas from biofuels (or batteries from asteroids), they'll stop spilling stuff in our Gulf.

Of course, who owns big oil? The shareholders. If they go public, I plan on buying shares in General Polywell.

ltgbrown
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Postby ltgbrown » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:27 pm

Polywell would destabilize the political landscape so much that it will most likely:

1. be sequestered initially for America only, their closest allies decades later, and the world in 50 to 100 years.

2. be classified for DECADES until the technology can provide unequivocal American superiority.

3. be transfered to multinational company/ies who will then found a NWO.


I would beg to differ with this suggestion. Suppose PW worked (my biggest hope and dream next to M-E working) and the above happened. What would the rest of the world say about us? More importantly, how would we reconcile the seeming disparity between what we stand for and what we did as a result of "hiding" this "everything technology"? i.e. I would like to think we stand for all that is good/best in humanity (I know, very utopian of me, but, as is pointed out, how many other "conquers" execute the Marshal Plan and help their former enemies become the #2 economy in the world?) with the despair and suffering that would continue as a result of our purposefully and knowingly limiting the expansion and implementation of PW with all the positive implications discussed here (by the way, nice list! and a fun discussion, since we still have no data to talk about)? (It took me several read throughs to get that incredibly long run on sentence together, enjoy!)

Personally, once Rick and the boys prove it, the smartest (which some of you would argue "therefore it will never happen") thing our govt (not the Navy, this would be much much much bigger than the Navy) could do was immediately announce it and begin an Apollo like program to move us away from fossil fuels and onto fusion/electric power. Lead the world in this with all the economic benefits that come with being first and do it from the moral high ground (which I know, some of you would say we have never really been on).

PW is bigger than the Navy. It is bigger than the US. It is about humanity (just look at the list of issues Cole has brought up in his monumental "first post"!). It is about the planet. It about whether or not our children's children will be able to enjoy the kind of life our parents and us have been enjoying.

By the way, PW powered blimps would make for a fantastic humanitarian aid vehicle! Imagine several of those puppies zipping over to Indonesia after the earthquake with hundreds of tons of supplies and a huge US flag on the side in lights that could be seen all night long like a beacon of hope and salvation.
Famous last words, "Hey, watch this!"

ltgbrown
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Postby ltgbrown » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:33 pm

By the way, my assumption was that you meant to classify the existence of said PW. Obviously, specific engineering and materials details would and should be highly classified in order to preserve the economic rights that come with discovery and development.
Famous last words, "Hey, watch this!"

cksantos
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Postby cksantos » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:39 pm

ltgbrown wrote:I would beg to differ with this suggestion.


Me too but everyone works their hardest when the are attacked/offended.

ltgbrown wrote: the smartest (which some of you would argue "therefore it will never happen") thing our govt (not the Navy, this would be much much much bigger than the Navy) could do was immediately announce it and begin an Apollo like program to move us away from fossil fuels and onto fusion/electric power. Lead the world in this with all the economic benefits that come with being first and do it from the moral high ground (which I know, some of you would say we have never really been on).


By holding that vision on this forum we can make that happen 100 monkey style.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundredth_monkey_effect

ltgbrown wrote:PW is bigger than the Navy. It is bigger than the US. It is about humanity (just look at the list of issues Cole has brought up in his monumental "first post"!). It is about the planet. It about whether or not our children's children will be able to enjoy the kind of life our parents and us have been enjoying.


inspiring, i like this

ltgbrown wrote:By the way, PW powered blimps would make for a fantastic humanitarian aid vehicle! Imagine several of those puppies zipping over to Indonesia after the earthquake with hundreds of tons of supplies and a huge US flag on the side in lights that could be seen all night long like a beacon of hope and salvation.


Fu**ing genius, thats all I have to say.
Last edited by cksantos on Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

GIThruster
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Postby GIThruster » Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:03 pm

. . .but it's a BLIMP! They don't ever "zip" anywhere.

If you want to send aid, you send a C-130 or some such, not a blimp. . .

Geesss, you know the thing doesn't even have positive buoyancy? It's the very last craft you'd use for transport.

Honestly, the whole thing is a disappointment. It was originally supposed to fly at 70,000' for ten years. What they got is 20,000' for 3 weeks.

This is not your father's Skunkworks. . .
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MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:05 pm

cksantos wrote:By holding that vision on this forum we can make that happen 100 monkey style.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundredth_monkey_effect


In the age of the internet about 5 monkeys are enough.

A few people who saw the Google video promoted it like crazy on the interwebz. About 8 months later the Navy refunded the project and Dr. B and Rick both thanked bloggers for raising awareness.

And don't forget Tom Ligon's Analog articles.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

ltgbrown
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Postby ltgbrown » Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:12 pm

but it's a BLIMP! They don't ever "zip" anywhere.


My bad. I meant to put "zipping" in quotes. My deepest apologies! :D
Famous last words, "Hey, watch this!"

cksantos
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Postby cksantos » Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:44 pm

GIThruster wrote:. . .but it's a BLIMP! They don't ever "zip" anywhere.


Hehe, ya true, but it doesn't need to because it will already be there in the global blimp NWO scenario. It would make a neat aerial cruise ship with balcony rooms, casinos, etc. then only terrorist would shoot at it.

GIThruster wrote:If you want to send aid, you send a C-130 or some such, not a blimp. . .


Unless the aid was on 24 standby in the air.

GIThruster wrote:Geesss, you know the thing doesn't even have positive buoyancy? It's the very last craft you'd use for transport.


However, it may also be a quarter-scale prototype of a heavy-lifter...P-791 [has] a gross lift of roughly 3-5 tons


http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... 0606p2.xml

4 x 3 to 5 = 12-15 tons in a full scale device.

Yet this site claims 1000 ton airship...

http://www.nagyairship.com/

Lift on Antonov is 275 tons. (worlds largest conventional plane)

The Lifting Fuselage design has a history of up to 2 1/2 times the load capacity of any plane of similar size and power.

http://www.symscape.com/blog/blended-wi ... ying-wings

So that makes 272 x 2.5 = 687.5 tons is the current technological theoretical max for planes.

Hmmmm, maybe we should put all the toys in a Boeing BWB and a Blimp and have them battle it out on international TV.





MirariNefas
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Postby MirariNefas » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:30 am

cksantos wrote:
Unless the aid was on 24 standby in the air.


What? Every country would just have some "aid" hovering above them in case they need it some time? Why not just give the stuff to the country and let them stick it in a shed on the ground? Or better yet, let someone start using it immediately. People are in need everywhere, always. We shift up some extra aid when its needed after specific disasters. Letting it all sit in the air unused for the once a decade or less event that occurs in any given pinprick area of the globe would just be a total waste.

cksantos
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Postby cksantos » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:07 am

MirariNefas wrote: Why not just give the stuff to the country and let them stick it in a shed on the ground?


Because then we dont look like heros with our giant beacon of hope. We can even put obama on the side of it.

You know we could just forget the whole humanitarian blimp idea, because its getting really hard to defend with any level of sanity intact.

Roger
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Postby Roger » Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:06 pm

China and iondia are already into polywell. Put your eggs in the India basket.

Cheap and abundant energy is used to build empires. Dutch, British, USA. The next empire? Put your eggs in the India basket.
I like the p-B11 resonance peak at 50 KV acceleration. In2 years we'll know.

KitemanSA
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Postby KitemanSA » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:18 am

GIThruster wrote:. . .but it's a BLIMP! They don't ever "zip" anywhere.
Ok, how bout a derigible? Indeed, a derigible may be the only vehicle that can do supersonic flight without an external sonic boom. Imagine, a PW SSD (Super Sonic Derigible) getting to the scene of a disaster while it is still going on and showing the... :)

Aero
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Postby Aero » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:44 am

Here is some food for thought ... Remember it has been our nuclear navy which allows the USA to project forces world wide. But it didn't have to be a navy,. Except for the timing of the tech, a nuclear Air Force (Polywell based) or Dirigibles instead of airplanes would have worked just as well. And they would still work well for any country with the will to spend the resources.

It's a little far out there but 10 or 20 Polywell powered Dirigibles carrying one or two air launched, nuclear armed, Jihadist piloted fighter-bombers flying an evasive flight path could project significant force world wide, and our vaunted navy would be challenged to stop them.
Aero


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