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joedead
Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 108
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Aero
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 886
Location: Eastern Iowa
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 Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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That is scary. Is it true?
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djolds1
Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 770
Location: Lancaster, PA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Aero wrote: | | That is scary. Is it true? |
To paraphrase a friend of mine in Finance Banking - "Can we say Weimar?"
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Duane J. Oldsen
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MSimon
Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 8780
Location: Rockford, Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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*
http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2009/02/atlas-is-shrugging.html
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We are at the point right now where the increased money supply looks like an increase in real demand. In 12 to 18 months price inflation will kick in. Then all hell will break loose.
Had the money supply been increased by giving the money to profitable producers a lot of the damage would have been averted. But most of the "stimulus" is going to consumers. Very bad move.
I predicted stagflation months ago. I'm holding to that prediction more than ever.
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jgarry
Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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I'll say this much. I got out of the stock market and pretty much hid my money in a mattress in late 2007. I haven't made any dough the last year and a half, but then again I still might be able to retire.
I wasn't listening to Glenn Beck when I made that decision. |
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kcdodd
Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 285
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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I think the government should have stayed out. It's bad to bail out companies. Giving money to producers is the worst possible move. If they don't have to sell products/service to get money, they won't. And when they don't have to do that they fire the people that made them. And when they do that, those people can't buy those products/services even if the companies wanted them to.
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MSimon
Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 8780
Location: Rockford, Illinois
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| kcdodd wrote: | | I think the government should have stayed out. It's bad to bail out companies. Giving money to producers is the worst possible move. If they don't have to sell products/service to get money, they won't. And when they don't have to do that they fire the people that made them. And when they do that, those people can't buy those products/services even if the companies wanted them to. |
Yes. Just giving them money is bad. Lowering their cost of production (taxes) seems to work though.
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IntLibber
Joined: 24 Sep 2008
Posts: 600
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:13 am Post subject: |
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Its a simple question to ask: since excessive borrowing and debt got us into this mess in the first place, someone please explain to me how getting even deeper into debt is going to fix it?
The real facts are that both of the demopublican duopoly of power know that their fiat money system is collapsing, they are just in the process of looting what they can from the system before it all goes down the crapper. |
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MSimon
Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 8780
Location: Rockford, Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| IntLibber wrote: | Its a simple question to ask: since excessive borrowing and debt got us into this mess in the first place, someone please explain to me how getting even deeper into debt is going to fix it?
The real facts are that both of the demopublican duopoly of power know that their fiat money system is collapsing, they are just in the process of looting what they can from the system before it all goes down the crapper. |
I've heard that before. What we get instead are periodic revaluations.
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alexjrgreen
Joined: 13 Nov 2008
Posts: 760
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| MSimon wrote: | | IntLibber wrote: | Its a simple question to ask: since excessive borrowing and debt got us into this mess in the first place, someone please explain to me how getting even deeper into debt is going to fix it?
The real facts are that both of the demopublican duopoly of power know that their fiat money system is collapsing, they are just in the process of looting what they can from the system before it all goes down the crapper. |
I've heard that before. What we get instead are periodic revaluations. |
Think of it as printing money to lower the value of the dollar. Export your way out of trouble while there's still a manufacturing sector left.
With so many toxic investments around, the dollar is probably overvalued anyway.
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MSimon
Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 8780
Location: Rockford, Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| alexjrgreen wrote: | | MSimon wrote: | | IntLibber wrote: | Its a simple question to ask: since excessive borrowing and debt got us into this mess in the first place, someone please explain to me how getting even deeper into debt is going to fix it?
The real facts are that both of the demopublican duopoly of power know that their fiat money system is collapsing, they are just in the process of looting what they can from the system before it all goes down the crapper. |
I've heard that before. What we get instead are periodic revaluations. |
Think of it as printing money to lower the value of the dollar. Export your way out of trouble while there's still a manufacturing sector left.
With so many toxic investments around, the dollar is probably overvalued anyway. |
But so is every other currency and gold is not spiking. I'd say we are at the calm before the storm phase.
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alexjrgreen
Joined: 13 Nov 2008
Posts: 760
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| MSimon wrote: | | alexjrgreen wrote: | [...]
With so many toxic investments around, the dollar is probably overvalued anyway. |
But so is every other currency and gold is not spiking. I'd say we are at the calm before the storm phase. |
Gold prices here:
http://www.usagold.com/gold-price.html
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MSimon
Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 8780
Location: Rockford, Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| alexjrgreen wrote: | | MSimon wrote: | | alexjrgreen wrote: | [...]
With so many toxic investments around, the dollar is probably overvalued anyway. |
But so is every other currency and gold is not spiking. I'd say we are at the calm before the storm phase. |
Gold prices here:
http://www.usagold.com/gold-price.html |
Looks like a 20 year rise with a current flattening. I take that to mean most of the previous inflation has been absorbed. I think we have a new round yet to come.
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JohnP
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 257
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| If we can dispense with the cocky, shrill, right-wing infoporn and get down to some hard analysis, I would be more interested. |
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MSimon
Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 8780
Location: Rockford, Illinois
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnP wrote: | | If we can dispense with the cocky, shrill, right-wing infoporn and get down to some hard analysis, I would be more interested. |
The short form: we are screwed.
The only way to pump money into an economy without increasing inflation is to see that the money goes to producers. The money (most of it) is going to consumers. Expect a large spike in inflation in 12 to 18 months. i.e. just in time for the 2010 election. We are so screwed.
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