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KitemanSA
Joined: 28 Sep 2008
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Location: Northern VA
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MSimon
Joined: 16 Jul 2007
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Location: Rockford, Illinois
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KitemanSA
Joined: 28 Sep 2008
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Location: Northern VA
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 Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| MSimon wrote: | | gave you a H/T ... |
OK, so what is a H/T? |
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MSimon
Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 8780
Location: Rockford, Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| KitemanSA wrote: | | MSimon wrote: | | gave you a H/T ... |
OK, so what is a H/T? |
Hat Tip. It means I mentioned you as the source. In fact I link back to your post. Have a look.
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Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit. |
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KitemanSA
Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Posts: 2391
Location: Northern VA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| MSimon wrote: | | Hat Tip. It means I mentioned you as the source. In fact I link back to your post. Have a look. |
Saw it. Thanks!  |
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kurt9
Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 296
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:06 am Post subject: Re: Solicitation Details Available |
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This is the appropriate next step to take in the development of polywell fusion. Even though the WB-7 experiments last summer were promising, polywell is still very much a speculative technology. We cannot expect the bureaucracy of the Federal government to fund it at a higher level than this.
Success with this follow on contract will build more "yes" momentum for further development. |
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choff
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 337
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:43 am Post subject: |
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If my understanding is correct, the keepalive contracts previous to these, were to modify WB7 by adding ion guns+instrumentation. The idea was to test if the neutron counts were misleading and caused by ion-background gas collisions as opposed to ion-ion collisions. By awarding these new keepalive contracts, one could infer the neutron counts are indeed from ion-ion collisions, since there would be no point in awarding the new contracts otherwise.
My worry is that the U.S. government will skip a major funding decision until at least 2010, if ever. The DOE guys may want to take it over, decide to spent many millions more running computer simulations based on the data collected rather than just building it, claim it probably won't work on the large scale, and bury it until ITER or some other pet tokamak project has run its course. It just doesn't fit into there models of what a fusion reactor should look like.
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CHoff |
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clonan
Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 86
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:12 am Post subject: |
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Except that there is nothing preventing a private company or even China from doing the same research.
$200 million really isn't much money. I am Certain that if China starts looking at it (they probably already have started) and it becomes common knowledge, the US will leap into financing it... |
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MSimon
Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 8780
Location: Rockford, Illinois
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:47 am Post subject: |
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Google - Polywell Fusion
My campaign is already getting results - this morning there were 14,400 matches. Now there are 16,400. My goal is 100,000.
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Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit. |
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Torulf2
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 175
Location: Swedem
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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$200 million, Is that the cost of build a WB100?
I thought it is $2 million. $200 is for develop it for electrical production. |
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MSimon
Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 8780
Location: Rockford, Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| Torulf2 wrote: | $200 million, Is that the cost of build a WB100?
I thought it is $2 million. $200 is for develop it for electrical production. |
It is all a little hazy. I thought the $200 million was for a whole program. i.e. intermediate tests to work out the engineering and then WB-100.
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Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit. |
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KitemanSA
Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Posts: 2391
Location: Northern VA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:13 am Post subject: |
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| In his 2006 Valencia paper, Dr. Bussard wrote: | It is thus NOT POSSIBLE to test at steady-state ALL of the physics working in concert, in a Polywell machine, in devices below about 1.5 m in size/radius. This fundamental fact, driven by the realities of mechanical and thermal engineering design and construction - to meet immutable constraints of the basic physics -, has made it impossible to reach the objective of a break-even fusion power machine at
the sizes and scales used in the U.S.Navy IEF program conducted by EMC2 since 1991. To achieve this objective, it has now been conclusively proven that machines in this larger size range must be used.
Since the cost of these scales roughly as the cube of their size, the costs for proof of net power is estimated to be in the range of $ 120-180M, as compared with the approximately $15-18 M that has been spent over the past 13 years in this program. This estimate turns out to be completely consistent with those made originally in the earliest studies (1987-91) ever done (by EMC2) for this concept and program, which estimated a cost to proof-of-breakeven (or net power) in the range of $ 50 - $ 60 M for DD fuel, and $ 120 +M for pB11, in 1992. Scaled to today‘s (2005) dollars, these numbers would be very much larger. |
Later in the paper he mentions two more small scale machines (WB-7, a "squared" coil truncated cube, and WB-8, a dodecahedron, which he wrote he expected ~5 times better output due to less pseudo, more sphericity.
With this added work, we are up to ~$200M. |
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