LENR Is Real

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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birchoff
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby birchoff » Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:03 pm


birchoff
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby birchoff » Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:03 pm


paperburn1
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby paperburn1 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:24 pm

I just thought that video was funny 5hit.
:?
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

tomclarke
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby tomclarke » Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:43 pm


ladajo
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby ladajo » Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:25 pm

So, the video was funny.

Tom, nice synopsis of Rossiclown's M.O.
The clown has repeated this pattern a number of times now and it is interesting, but expected, that Parallel completely overlooked that.
How many versions of Ecat have we seen to date? How many have undergone "long term testing"?
Note, I am not even going with the "how many were sold?" discussion.

Rossi is full of shit.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

parallel
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby parallel » Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:52 pm

Russian LENR Systems)
Posted on November 20, 2015 by Frank Acland

"A post titled “Our Response to A Rossi” on the Russian Proatom.ru website by Alexander Prosvirnov reports on various apparently successful LENR experiments that have taken place in Russia recently, and focuses on the work of a team led by Anatoly Klimov who have reported success with a “plasma vortex” system which reportedly could produce a COP of 3-10.

The article can be read in Russian here: http://www.proatom.ru/modules.php?file= ... s&sid=6384 Following are some Google translated excerpts.

Scientists of the Joint Institute for High Temperatures (High Temperatures RAS), Anatoly Klimov and his team have created a plasma vortex reactor, which received a sevenfold excess output on power consumption, as well as direct evidence transmutation of elements . . .
Today we know 7 research groups in Russia and abroad, who, regardless of A. Rossi AG Parkhomov conducted successful experiments with nickel-hydrogen and nickel-lithium alloy aluminum hydride systems. [3] There were other than nickel-hydrogen LENY systems new installation on a different principle"

So, seven positive experiments are reported, but as is well known only reports by those that have never tried an LENR replication count and they never report positive results. Skeptics and trolls require a replication of a replication.

PNeilson10
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby PNeilson10 » Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:06 pm

So - Tom C - please debunk this chain. Please reference the line numbers for clarity.

1) The so called LENR reaction is just the standard p + Li 7 to 2 He 4 + 17 MeV - the second nuclear reaction discovered that earned its discoverers Nobel's

2) The cross section for this reaction determined by proton beam experiments has its "Sweet Spot" at 1.8 Mev with a long tail down into the 10's of keV at low rates. This long tail downwards in energy is key to this analysis. As the energy drops - of course the probability falls markedly - but not to zero.

3) There literature states there are anomaly's in the cross sections having to do with electron screening. The experiments and calculations are still a bit murky but bare atoms and protons would get a cleaner approach to each other. It appears the cross section probabilities increase a considerable amount with reduced electron screening.

4) Very few neutrons are produced in this reaction - I have been unable to find (from time constraints or because there is not much there) the fraction of reactions that produces neutrons. So not finding neutrons in a test - because the nuclear reaction is aneutronic - should not be a surprise.

5) As the produced species are He there should be trace He to be found

6) Shielding needs are minimal - a good book would be fine. Use a bad book if you don't want to waste good paper.

7) I can find nothing (and don't really know where to look) for information on ionizing radiation on this reaction. It would seem to be minimal.

9) Cascades are possible as the energy in the He is ~ 8 MeV. The He would need to dump a lot of that energy in a p and the p would have the energy to react if it could find a Li while it is still energetic.

10) Since this is a well known reaction - non of the above is in question other than the precision numbers of cross section, modifications due to electron screening, etc.

11) All of this data is from proton beams on a Li target.

12) The above reaction fits in with the experimental evidence from many so called LENR experiments. Excess Energy, No Neutrons of Gammas, no radiation shielding required, He found occasionally.

12) Li + p -> 2 He is standard hot fusion from the textbook. Though I really have no idea why its called fusion - looks like proton induced fission to me.

13) The Li + p reaction is in all respects environmentally sound - if not the ideal nuclear reaction.

14) So - If I created a proton beam - Li target reactor - I would have net energy gain but insufficient to be practical

15) Recent literature indicates that a Laser induced B + p reactor is nearing practicality. A Laser induced Li + p reactor might be a better choice. This method used a Laser to impart the energy needed for the reaction to the p. Laser accelerated protons in a beam configuration where the beam line is very short.

A) First question to Tom - is the above agreed to?

20) Skipping line numbers to leave room for additions. Tom is familiar with this process.

Having a ideal reaction with known parameters lets look at alternative methods of imparting energy to the protons.

31) Take a lattice of a metal in nanopowder form so the surface area to volume ratio is high

32) Introduce Li as a component of the lattice

33) Disassociate H2 to provide a proton source - the protons that are absorbed by the lattice have a far longer lifetime as H than the gaseous H

34) As the protons move through the lattice - they occasionally will find themselves in close proximity to a Li atom. The proton and Li are a close approximation to 2 particles in a well. A close enough approximation that standard QM methods of calculation apply.

35) Don't view the lattice as a hunk of metal - look at it in a modern framework as a Solid State Plasma. http://arxiv.org/abs/1410.1526

36) Repeat step 35 above. This is the single critical step in this process. There is no new physics in this step. But it changes the argument completely. It is unexplored territory for most.

37) Stimulate the lattice in some manner (Heat, Light, Current) to impart keV levels of energy to the protons trapped in lattice wells.

38) The reaction probably cascades as the 17 MeV alphas are carrying a lot of energy compared to the cross section requirements. It might be possible to create enough of a chain reaction to melt down the reactor though this leads to no environmental effects - just a ruined reactor chamber.

38) Look at the tunneling possibility of the Li + p reaction to lower the energy requirement. The tunneling probability per Li - p collision will be low.

39) Major step 2. The solid state plasma has a frequency in the order of single THz. For a round number call it 5 Trillion Hz. For a Li + P in a well that is 5 Trillion collisions per second. Not like a particle beam with one collision opportunity.

B) Tom - are you in agreement on any of these points?

Put the equation together.

((Reaction Cross Section + Tunneling Probabilities) x energy distribution of the proton - Li collisions) x 5 THz collisions per second.

51) Standard hot fusion reaction - no new physics.

52) Standard tunneling probabilities - no new physics.

53) Standard energy of particles in an excited lattice - no new physics but unexplored for precision data.

54) Collision rates at the lattice plasma frequency - 5 THz ish - no new physics This requires a change in thinking - the collision rate is breathtakingly huge and needs to be fully included in the math leading to reaction rates.

55) Unknown probability of reaction rate as the energy in the lattice and tunneling probability data is not well known (if at all)

56) I make no claims to the value of the reaction rate other than it is > 0. The value of the reaction lies in the rate obtainable.

57) In no way is this a "Low energy nuclear reaction" - it is simply a "Standard Nuclear Reaction in a Solid State Plasma"

C) Moment of truth for Tom - am I FOS or does this scenario work? Not does it make a practical, world saving, energy source. Just is the reaction rate > 0?

Standard chemical engineering methods of increasing the reaction rate

70) Increase the supply of H (monoatomic only) to be absorbed by the lattice. Today this means a spark gap in H2. Are there other methods?

71) Increase the pressure of the H which will help drive the H into the lattice. Standard Pressure vessel tech.

72) Find the optimal method of Li distribution in the lattice. Prepare the lattice with the Li well mixed.

73) Use a non-conductive non solid state plasma pressure vessel to keep the stimulation of the lattice in the lattice

74) Find the optimal method of lattice stimulation (Heat, Light, Current) to increase the collision energy

75) Find the optimal method of lattice construction to increase the collision energy. I have no real idea what to do here but a DFT expert might.

D) None of these methods should have any controversy - they are standard ChE tools in the tool kit except for 75. The lattice construction is more of a ChE catalysis problem and these are largely solved today with Edisonian trial and error methods. Tom - feel free to comment

Comparison to known LENR test results

90) Excess Heat

91) No (minimal) Neutrons

92) No (minimal) Gammas

93) No (minimal) Betas

94) To eliminate quibbling, Branching fractions to Neutrons and Gammas and Betas are surely not zero but are so low that measurement is difficult

95) No shielding (Its impossible to build a pressure vessel that won't shield the Alphas

96) Wildly varying reaction rates in the various experiments is easily explained due to all of the requirements in the proposed reaction. I don't really know of any experiment where all of the necessary parameters are even known, never mind controlled.

Significant unknowns

110) Energy of collisions in the lattice

111) Possibility of various known but not well studied lattice oscillations raising the energy of collisions in the lattice.

112) Possibility of the structure of the lattice allowing collective electrodynamic oscillations vastly increasing the collision energy.

113) Possibility of tunneling leading to significant increases of the reaction rate.


Conclusion

I find nothing exotic at all in this chain of reasoning - no magic anywhere.

There are significant unknowns that may reduce the reaction rate to uninteresting or raise it to the ideal power source.

A reasonable funded program could reduce the uncertainties enough to answer if proceeding is warranted

The black swan nature of success in this area makes it obvious that risking a little money to reduce the uncertainties is a good idea.


E)

Tom - please blast away at this point - I need all your negativity concentrated - cause if I can counter your negativity I might actually move forward with some grant applications.

parallel
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby parallel » Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:03 pm

plasma vortex reactor,

Image

Image

ladajo
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby ladajo » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:11 pm

How will you disassociate the H2? How much energy will this take? How will the resulting (p)s be presented to the Lithium 'matrix'?
What happens to all the (e-)s from the H2?
What do the (2He4)s do to the 'matrix'? How do the (2He4)s interact with the (e-)s from the H2 induced decay?

What has any of this got to do with Rossi?
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

PNeilson10
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby PNeilson10 » Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:17 pm

Er - Rossi uses LiALH4 in his reactors with the Ni powder.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_aluminium_hydride

ladajo
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby ladajo » Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:09 pm

As claimed, however, how does he achieve the conditions you propose with his water heater?

Again, what does this have to do with Rossi?

You are making an argument like; "Rich people have money, some rich people are white, I am white, I must have money too".
It doesn't work dude.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Crawdaddy
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby Crawdaddy » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:44 am


Axil
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby Axil » Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:00 am

From Mats Lewan

Interview with Rossi’s closest technician and engineer since 2012, Fulvio Fabiani:


Giorgio
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby Giorgio » Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:10 am

A society of dogmas is a dead society.

parallel
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby parallel » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:25 pm

GIorgio,
What degree, or even formal education, did Faraday or Edison have?


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