Will people be able to buy their own?

If polywell fusion is developed, in what ways will the world change for better or worse? Discuss.

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rj40
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Will people be able to buy their own?

Postby rj40 » Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:51 pm

So, if I had enough money, and polywell works, would I be able to buy my own BFR and pull myself off the grid? What are the dangers of BFRs being owned and operated by well-healed homeowners? I have seen some talk here about nuclear proliferation, but don’t recall the conclusions.

Also, if enough people are eventually able to pull themselves off the grid, what would this do, if anything, to electricity costs to those still forced to use the grid? I remember reading, years ago, that in the State of California, one is (was?) forced to either stay on the grid OR pay some sort of monthly fee. Not sure if this was ever true, but I wondered why it would be. My thought was that the powers-that-be were concerned that too many people off the grid would force higher prices for those still on it. That is, the operators could not spread the maintenance costs as much for this highly regulated service. In a more open market, they would simply shut down lines and plants, but not on something so regulated.

What happens when the only people using the existing power grids are rather poor while most others (middle class and up) have their own BFRs – either at home or as part of their condo or apartments complex?

MSimon
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Re: Will people be able to buy their own?

Postby MSimon » Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:02 pm

rj40 wrote:So, if I had enough money, and polywell works, would I be able to buy my own BFR and pull myself off the grid? What are the dangers of BFRs being owned and operated by well-healed homeowners? I have seen some talk here about nuclear proliferation, but don’t recall the conclusions.

Also, if enough people are eventually able to pull themselves off the grid, what would this do, if anything, to electricity costs to those still forced to use the grid? I remember reading, years ago, that in the State of California, one is (was?) forced to either stay on the grid OR pay some sort of monthly fee. Not sure if this was ever true, but I wondered why it would be. My thought was that the powers-that-be were concerned that too many people off the grid would force higher prices for those still on it. That is, the operators could not spread the maintenance costs as much for this highly regulated service. In a more open market, they would simply shut down lines and plants, but not on something so regulated.

What happens when the only people using the existing power grids are rather poor while most others (middle class and up) have their own BFRs – either at home or as part of their condo or apartments complex?


No problem. If You have a use for 1 to 100 MW and can get the requisite NRC licenses and have room for the required shielding and can afford operators for 24/7 production, I don't see why not.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

rj40
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Postby rj40 » Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:11 pm

So it would require all of that, including full-time operators. That makes sense; I guess I was thinking/hoping it might, eventually, be more like a gasoline engine. Just keep dumping in the boron and protons and have an inspection a few times a year, and you are set. But alas, it is not.

MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:18 pm

About 1/2 the cost for residential electricity is for grid maintenance.

It is one of the reasons for a base charge.

Low electrical cost will make the most difference in production situations. i.e. Aluminum smelting.

Being able to site a BFR at the ore deposit could make a big difference. Normally ore has to be transported to an area with hydro power.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:20 pm

rj40 wrote:So it would require all of that, including full-time operators. That makes sense; I guess I was thinking/hoping it might, eventually, be more like a gasoline engine. Just keep dumping in the boron and protons and have an inspection a few times a year, and you are set. But alas, it is not.


It may be some day. It will not be that way in the beginning. It took 40 or 60 years from the first high power radio transmitters until they were licensed to run unattended.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

derg
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Re: Will people be able to buy their own?

Postby derg » Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:19 pm

MSimon wrote:No problem. If You have a use for 1 to 100 MW and can get the requisite NRC licenses and have room for the required shielding and can afford operators for 24/7 production, I don't see why not.


They won’t be using it to heat their homes, but there will be lots of people around the world doing just that- to run their businesses and pursue engineering projects. If the price is as low as 100K, there should follow an amateur Polywell rocketry movement.

seedload
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Postby seedload » Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:23 pm

Not only will people be able to buy their own, but eventually people will be considered to be entitled to have their own regardless of how much they make. Financial Institutions, both semi-private and private, will be strong-armed into lending money to everyone and anyone because of the perceived BFR entitlement. The loans will be made at absurdly low rates, with no down payments, and with a ridiculous lack of qualifications. When the institutions eventually collapse, the strong-arming will be conveniently forgotten and the institutions will be blamed for the problem. In the end the taxpayers will be foot the bill.

... just saying

JohnP
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Postby JohnP » Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:45 pm

So, if I had enough money, and polywell works, would I be able to buy my own BFR and pull myself off the grid?


I can see this being a neighborhood or village thing, but not a household thing. Remote places like McMurdo Station, Easter Island, Greenland, could benefit greatly. Maybe the White House could benefit from this too - with all their coffee machines, faxes, situation rooms, etc.

Toshiba has been shopping around a sealed turnkey baby nuke plant with similar applications.


http://www.talk-polywell.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=320&highlight=toshiba

MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:54 pm

seedload wrote:Not only will people be able to buy their own, but eventually people will be considered to be entitled to have their own regardless of how much they make. Financial Institutions, both semi-private and private, will be strong-armed into lending money to everyone and anyone because of the perceived BFR entitlement. The loans will be made at absurdly low rates, with no down payments, and with a ridiculous lack of qualifications. When the institutions eventually collapse, the strong-arming will be conveniently forgotten and the institutions will be blamed for the problem. In the end the taxpayers will be foot the bill.

... just saying


Of course the other side of the proposition will be a total collapse of the grid due to the fact that no one will be interested in supplying it electricity.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

rj40
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Location: Southern USA

Postby rj40 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:30 am

This mentions some interesting things. Apparently, in some sectors, affordable power is more important than affordable labor.

http://www.forbes.com/global/2008/0929/ ... r=yahoomag

They are talking about BFR sized power needs.


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