Shipping

If polywell fusion is developed, in what ways will the world change for better or worse? Discuss.

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Mike Holmes
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Postby Mike Holmes » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:05 pm

Well, the conspiracy theory with regards to the streetcars is that the companies running them were all bought up by the auto-makers, expressly so that they could be then shut down.

There are actually some pretty good reasons why the electric systems were dismantled. But that won't stop people from forever seeing evil in the things that the auto-makers do. They've also keeping the 100 MPG carburetor under wraps for the last 40 years, dontchaknow...

In any case, economics, and improvements in electrical delivery systems may make electric distribution viable, especially once we have cheap electricity from BFRs... :-)

Anyhow it continues to work well enough under ground.

Mike

TallDave
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Postby TallDave » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:16 pm

Trains don't work very well in the U.S. Just too much area, not enough people.

We might get some running up the coasts, though.

Scupperer
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Postby Scupperer » Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:37 pm

TallDave wrote:Trains don't work very well in the U.S. Just too much area, not enough people.


Trains work quite well for freight transport.

If a BFR is 12 ft or less in diameter, I can see converting a diesel/electric freight engine to have 3 or 4 BFR's lined up on top, hooked right into the electric engine. Wouldn't have to build new lines, or modify existing overpasses or tunnels.

Most charts I've seen show U.S. oil use as 70% for transportation. I'll bet a big chunk of that is for moving trains.
Perrin Ehlinger

MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:39 am

Scupperer wrote:
TallDave wrote:Trains don't work very well in the U.S. Just too much area, not enough people.


Trains work quite well for freight transport.

If a BFR is 12 ft or less in diameter, I can see converting a diesel/electric freight engine to have 3 or 4 BFR's lined up on top, hooked right into the electric engine. Wouldn't have to build new lines, or modify existing overpasses or tunnels.

Most charts I've seen show U.S. oil use as 70% for transportation. I'll bet a big chunk of that is for moving trains.


Even a reduction of 10% in American use of transport fuels would have a significant effect on prices.

BTW I have had a railroad person contact me about the use of BFRs in rail transport. I told him the odds were that rail would be on oil for quite some time to come. However, I pointed out that BFRs could make the oil cheaper (tar sands, oil shale etc)
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

PMN1
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Postby PMN1 » Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:29 pm

mmhh, it seems that with the currnet hike in oil prices, the cost of shipping a container from the Far East to Europe has nearly tripled....

Helius
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Postby Helius » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:34 pm

PMN1 wrote:mmhh, it seems that with the currnet hike in oil prices, the cost of shipping a container from the Far East to Europe has nearly tripled....


The far east countries, China, India, Taiwan like to subsidize oil. I wonder if shipping costs are being transferred.

Should we even be trading with countries that subsidize oil?

scareduck
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Postby scareduck » Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:12 pm

Helius wrote:
PMN1 wrote:mmhh, it seems that with the currnet hike in oil prices, the cost of shipping a container from the Far East to Europe has nearly tripled....


The far east countries, China, India, Taiwan like to subsidize oil. I wonder if shipping costs are being transferred.

Should we even be trading with countries that subsidize oil?


Or hire thugs to beat up on/imprison anyone who dares to complain about problems? Or that uses slave labor? Or that -- but I could go on a long time in that vein. Free trade with China is a disaster for the developed world, a tarpit into which we descend at our own peril.

Abraxas
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Postby Abraxas » Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:23 pm

Shipping is an extremely efficient mode of transportation, mostly because propulsion systems today really don't need radically refined fuel. Heavy fuel oils are used... and their so unrefined it has to be at around 170 degrees Farenheit just to move.

But regardless, I'm going to have to disagree with the few people that think shipping will fail if Polywell fusion systems are introduced to the domestic market. In fact, this system has MASSIVE implications for shipping because no matter how fast air travel is, ships can still carry the most.

If I need to move 50 tanks from the US to the coast of Europe, am I really going to use my entire fleet of C-5s? Or am I gonna use 3 or 4 T-AKE, T-AOE or similar heavy lift ship?

Same goes for massive amounts of cargo. Planes can only be built so big before the structure becomes questionable. Ships can become MUCH bigger before structrual integrity is compromised by it's own size.

Basically, shipping will NOT meet it's end because of this. In fact, it might find a resurgence seeing as it would be easier to integrate a Polywell fusor into a ship then on a plane.

Plus, seeing as the Polywell (I imagine) makes very little noise, the US Navy will find no end to how they could use this on Boomers and attack subs.

I'm very excited about all this!
"... we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave."
- Hunter S. Thompson

MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:11 pm

scareduck wrote:
Helius wrote:
PMN1 wrote:mmhh, it seems that with the currnet hike in oil prices, the cost of shipping a container from the Far East to Europe has nearly tripled....


The far east countries, China, India, Taiwan like to subsidize oil. I wonder if shipping costs are being transferred.

Should we even be trading with countries that subsidize oil?


Or hire thugs to beat up on/imprison anyone who dares to complain about problems? Or that uses slave labor? Or that -- but I could go on a long time in that vein. Free trade with China is a disaster for the developed world, a tarpit into which we descend at our own peril.


When countries sell you goods at below costs it was once called reparations and was considered a good thing for the buyers.

Of course the answer to slave labor is the electric motor controlled by a microprocessor. The other side of that equation is a lot of unemployed slaves.

Buy low, sell high. Everyone's output is some one else's input.

The world is not going to get cleaned up all at once. Sad but true facts of life. It sucks. It is what it is.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

PMN1
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Postby PMN1 » Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:31 pm

Just a wild thought, but if you have ship that uses azimuth thrusters, would it be possible to completely change the power source for those pods, for example replacing the existing machinery with a polywell to produce the elctricity or even cutting the ship in two and adding a section with a polywell??

MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:42 am

PMN1 wrote:Just a wild thought, but if you have ship that uses azimuth thrusters, would it be possible to completely change the power source for those pods, for example replacing the existing machinery with a polywell to produce the elctricity or even cutting the ship in two and adding a section with a polywell??


The latest in ship design is generators of various sorts (diesels are a big favorite) coupled to big motors on pods that swivel. Also being worked on is 77K superconducting motors.

Eliminating shaft alleys is particularly good for Navy vessels. It does give you flexibility in commercial ships too. You don't have to put the engines in a particular place.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

kunkmiester
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Postby kunkmiester » Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:08 am

I'd imagine most commercial ships have enough room that a good dry dock can pull a diesel or turbine and replace it with a polywell and accessories.

For cars and trucks, put an overhead in the right lane. You cruise for a while, then move over and raise your doodad to draw power. You charge like a satellite TV card, with each card prepaid for a certain amount you can pull. You only need enough to charge up between cruise distances. In time, you need fewer and fewer as battery technology improves.
Evil is evil, no matter how small


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