Polywell transportation: how small?

If polywell fusion is developed, in what ways will the world change for better or worse? Discuss.

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hanelyp
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Polywell transportation: how small?

Postby hanelyp » Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:50 pm

How small in terms of size and mass could a polywell for transportation use practically be? Naval destroyers and submarines seem likely. Civilian naval shipping seems likely at some point given a working polywell plant. Railroad locomotives? Airliners? Trucks?

JohnP
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Postby JohnP » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:06 pm

Dr Bussard, in an interview http://www.americanantigravity.com/graphics/interviews/Robert-Bussard-Interview.wma

mentioned designs for a truck based polywell. I think he mentioned 100MW.

MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:57 pm

Very Very roughly 1 KW = 1 HP

1 MW ~= 1,000 HP.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

derg
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Postby derg » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:00 pm

MSimon wrote:
1 MW


Generation III

esotERIC D
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Postby esotERIC D » Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:36 am

From what I have seen on this forum and generally around it appears that power output scales as r^7 with a 2 meter radius reactor putting out 100MW. As I understand this changing the output power drastically will not drastically change the radius. So I dont see a polywell fitting on a train or truck.

However, i think that it is about time for hybrid super blimps to make an appearance/resurgance, you've even got helium production on board...

I think Dr. Bussard started out in the field of Nuclear flight :)

also, What is Generation III?

-Eric D

MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:03 am

Gen I - stationary plants
Gen II - ships/ large aircraft
Gen III - trucks and trains
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

djolds1
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Postby djolds1 » Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:45 pm

MSimon wrote:Gen I - stationary plants
Gen II - ships/ large aircraft
Gen III - trucks and trains


Timescale guesstimate on each generation?

IIRC, the el humungo 8000MWth plants mentioned for the QED rockets were 5m radius grid, 10m radius vacuum vessel. Though the 10m radius might have included the direct conversion system, with a smaller-radius vacuum vessel..

Here's an oddball option. A "deployable" Gen 1 or 2 reactor. Components packed densely, for transport, and then unfold like a toy transformer when in place. Transport mode no larger than a standard international shipping container.

Duane
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MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:13 pm

The fewer the seams the better. I think one would be enough.

Or else we blimp or helicopter them in. Barges and ships every where else.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

wizz33
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Postby wizz33 » Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:01 pm

you could always use special road transport 3x3m can fit on most roads,
i think its tall that is the limeting factor

djolds1
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Postby djolds1 » Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:16 pm

MSimon wrote:The fewer the seams the better. I think one would be enough.

Or else we blimp or helicopter them in. Barges and ships every where else.



BOOOOOORING! :P

Might as well have some fun. Besides, maximum packing density has some advantages.

Duane
Vae Victis

tombo
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Postby tombo » Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:07 pm

There are a few specially designated very large load routes.
For example one goes from Morton Thiokol in Utah to a barge terminal in Louisiana for the SS Boosters.
-Tom Boydston-
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn’t be called research, would it?" ~Albert Einstein

hanelyp
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Postby hanelyp » Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:25 pm

Given that reactor gain, a key factor to reactor go / no go, is projected to scale with B^4R, R and total power could be pretty small given the right magnet technology. But what about radiation shielding?

93143
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Postby 93143 » Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:02 am

Radiation shielding...

What's this I hear about a 477keV gamma emitted from a boron-10 neutron capture event? That's almost positron annihilation energy.

Maybe lithium-6 would be better. The cross section is one-fourth that of boron-10, but it doesn't emit gamma rays. It does, however, produce a tritium nucleus... hmm... where have I heard about THIS before?

Uranium-235 is another commonly mentioned option, but its cross section is even lower, and... why am I trying to come up with excuses not to use uranium as radiation shielding in a truck? Methinks I've heard about this reaction somewhere before too...

MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:33 pm

hanelyp wrote:Given that reactor gain, a key factor to reactor go / no go, is projected to scale with B^4R, R and total power could be pretty small given the right magnet technology. But what about radiation shielding?


One of the known problems is the large pulse power required for start up. Could be 1 to 20 MW for from 100 microseconds to as long as 10 seconds. That says you have to have a certain minimum size to be worth the power supplies. Of course if the start up problem can be reduced or eliminated then it is a different ballgame.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

TallDave
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Postby TallDave » Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:53 pm

I'd be surprised if Polywell can work as a power source for anything smaller than a carrier. And I'm guessing it carries a small fission reactor to start up the fusion reactor.


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